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Hi everyone,
I just wondered if anyone has got any advice on how to deal with the behaviour of my 4 yr old. Up until recently he's always been really good on the whole and the threat of starting to count to 3 has always made him do or stop doing what you want. Recently though this has changed serverly and he just won't listen at all to anyone. He has tried to hit me when he couldn't get his own way and bit his dad the other day when he saw him. I don't really know what to try for the best as just feel like i'm in a constant battle with him over everything and i'm pulling my hair out.
Any advice will be gratefully received.
Zippy
Hi Zippy. I'm a big fan of Jo Frost! Have you tried the time out method? When your son does something wrong, give a warning, if he does it again, place him somewhere safe and tell him why he's been put there, and walk away. Your son has to stay there for 4 minutes (a min per age). Of course it probably won't work straight away, so you really have to persevere, but I do believe it works. Also explain to your son that it isn't good/nice to bite etc.
My son was 5 when he 'changed'. The moment he hit the Reception!! Can you think of anything that might have caused this 'change' in your son?
Hi Zippy
I think when little ones hit out they tend to be feeling insecure or angry, can you figure out why?
Is he needing more boundaries? When you have got to 3 in the past? did you carry out the discipline? Is he angry with you for something.
My daughter went through a lashing out phase and now I look back I realise it was mostly because i was pretty unstable.
How are you at the moment? How are the visits with his dad going? How is nursery? Is he due to start school in Sept?
You shouldn't need to be in battle with a 4 year old. He needs to do as he is told, try using a low voice and be firm and perhaps use time out if he doesn't comply. (as hazeleyes suggests above.
I know it is hard, but whilst he is so young, you really do have all the control here and your son needs to see that.
If he starts to flounder around kicking or hitting, try holding him very tightly close to you, like a bear hug until he wears himself out.
Absolutely don't give in. You might get covered in bruises, but don't give in.
Decide what you want your boundaries to be and be prepared to be running about catching your son to make sure he does sit at the table/stay in bed/get in the bath. When he realises you mean it, he will start to listen more.
I could do with a solution for a teenager though... 
Good luck with it. And do come here for support, or a rant and rave, or a scream or if you need a bit of laughter...
Hi everyone thanks for your replies. The last year has been rather unsettled with me and l's dad splitting up, his dad moving out and then away and then back near us again so visits were varying from once a week to now most days. L started going to school nursery in Jan and is starting full time in Sept. As well as all this going on I had a new partner who pretty much lived with us for a few weeks befor e unfortunatly being sent to prison for something which I knew he'd been accused of but never believed he'd done. L thhinks he's on holiday as don't want him to know the truth as we have now split up anyway. I know at the time this unsettled him as he went only a few months after his dad. But all that happened 4 months ago and since then things have been fairly settled with it just being the two of us and his dad visiting most days to take him to school or just to play. I have no objection to him doing stuff with l at mine as I know its hard for him to take him to his as he shares with a mate.
Hazeleyes I tried the time out method last night and L found it highly amusing rather than a thinking time. He stayed put for the full 4 mins chatting away to himself and laughing.
Anna I've never got to 3 in the past because just saying 'do i need to count to 3' made him do or stop doing so there never was a punishment at the end of it as it was never needed.
I'm going to continue with using the time out method and see if it starts to work but if last night was anything to go by I think L will just make a mokery of it
zippy, time out is all about perseverance! All parenting techniques are. Children will try and play up, wind us around thier finger, try to dominate the situation to how they want it. But that is what we need to be on top of.
Persistant and perseverance! When my daughter moved from a cot to a small bed she used to get out of bed every night and run around and it used to drive me potty! But every time she got out of bed I would put her back in and then sit in the bedroom facing a slightly away from her (did feel a bit odd at times as she would look at me and ask me what I was doing!!) I would stay like that until she went to sleep. I felt like I was going a bit bonkers, but other than shout and scream at her, this was the only thing I could do. Anyway after about a week and a half went by, suddenly she just gave up! I said goodnight and sat on the floor and she went straight to sleep. Then did it again the next night. I have never had to sit on the floor again!!
I am telling you this story, just to prove the point that persistence does pay. Our children at 4 years old, don't know any better, only what we let them get away with. Stick with time out, show him you mean it and he will learn, I promise you.
sparklinglime, whats going on with you? Do you have a teenager that is behaving like this too??
Anna I am going to keep perservering with time out, just not convinced its going to work if he doesn't undertsand why he's being put there and just finds it funny. Maybe after a few more attempts he'll get it
Hey Zippy, glad to see you are persevering and coming back to this site for support!
My little 1 year old girl would find it funny when i tell her off... I'm in bad habits with her because I'm too distracted with 3 yo brother of hers to really put in place the discipline + praise + attention I would like to give her - and I hate to only tell her off, so if i feel she's not getting enough positive attention, unfortunately, I then don't feel it right to give her negative attention, hence when she slaps me... i often don't chide her as i should - this is different when she does it to her brother - i do tell her off / put her on naughty step (she giggles, goes get comfort blanket and acts like all a fun game) and give her bro the comfort...
I am hoping when his funding comes in in sept i can really knuckle down with her... 1 to 1.
I do the counting with 3yo boy just to keep him eating dinner mostly as well as tidying up/ stopping bad behaviour etc etc but try not to over use it. often it is preceded with a warning 'if you don't do such n such by the time i count to 3 I will do such n such' and I always carry it out. if i don't think i'm able to carry it out, i don't say it. things i take away from him - the DS, the TV (turn off / pause to be resumed when correct behaviour is seen). when/if he moves on to a different toy, I then just take that away. and will continue to remove his 'distractions' until he listens. I am really stubborn myself and he has got a great nature so guess i'm lucky that so far this is all working relatively well.
I know the tv isn't great as being part of the house hold, but i like it on when i'm home even if it is ceebeebies, this does mean there is always something I can easily 'control' and 'remove' if i don't like certain behaviours. - I always turn it off if we have guests and try to get out house as much as possible! :)
I have heard that 4 mins can be too long for the step, and maybe even 2 mins would do... but tbh, with another little one to be watching, i've never found it great as I just cannot monitor it as it should be... and .. also... somewhere somehow, my boy takes himself off to his bed room for self imposed 'time out' when things are getting too stressed, and I usually go up to him when it's been quiet for a few mins and find him messin about but in a calm way, able to move on from whatever the problem was earlier. so we hug, talk a bit about what happened, how to avoid it next time, and go back to having a sane day... hopefully:)
Hi zippy
When you put your son into time out, you need to change your demeanour. Get down on one knee and look him in the face and in a deep/cold voice say 'It is not OK to hit mummy, you are now going to sit here until for 2 minutes and then I want you to say sorry" Then walk away and completely ignore him. If he is giggling, then you need to get serious on him. Again eye level and low voice "this is not funny and I am not happy with your behaviour"
I know it sounds awful, but you need to make him feel your words, only then when will he reconsider his actions.
Practice with your voice, tone and stance when he has gone to bed, because if you are not used to it, then it can feel a bit strange. 
Don't use time out for everything, focus on one specific behaviour you want to see a change in, otherwise it can become pointlesss and very tiresome.
Then be absolutely vigilant with that behaviour. This really does work, but you have to persevere and be persistent and if there is giggling at you, then you are not being stern enough!
And remember lots of cuddles afterwards! Keep trying zippy, you can do this!
Anna thanks for the tips on time out. I have been changing the tone of my voice and getting down to his level but just let him get away with the chattering and really enjoying time out as didnt really think i should be going back to him until the time was up but i'll give it a go next time
The stairs works with my kids.
My son is eight and prone to eye rolling and dramatic sighs which I've told him I won't except, he has to vocalise his feelings calmly and politly. I say stairs! untill he sits down and is quiet for a few minutes, then we can talk about it.
I've been doing the 'stairs' since they were around three, four so it is normal for them and unless they are particularly upset about something it goes through smoothly just like in those happy vignietts of perfect children I used to watch on my Incredible Years course.
It wasn't always like that though, but five years of steady consistency have got it to where it is now... a very usefull tool for defussing a situation and getting to a point where we can talk about what ever persieved injustice they feel they are at the wrong end of.
I've been through the giggling and other distracting techniques and the time doesn't start untill they are quiet, eventualy they realise that the only thing to do is sit quietly and after five minuits they are generaly ready to talk.
Another one with my son was repeatedly asking 'can I go now?' to which I would say... Time starts again.
He doesn't do that anymore.
You have to be consistent and not give in, and not get into conversation, basicaly ignore them, remain calm, don't get angry. The time doesn't start untill they are sat quietly.
In the begining when it was difficult getting to that point I would take something away... as in something nice that they wanted to do or have.
And! never go back on any thing you say, if you say for example no sweets don't give in and then get them. Let them know the reasn for there being no sweets so they can learn to understand that negative behaviour has consequences.
Later.
Hi bubblegum, thanks for that.
zippy we really don't believe there is any absolute specific way of parenting, we are all different and so are our children. So although the behaviour wanted may be similar, the techniques can vary, to acheive what you need.
Supernanny says the length for time out should be however old your child is, in minutes, however as bubblegum points out, he does it until they are quiet for a few minutes and then they can all move on. (It also has to be when you are ready too!)
You need to feel in control, if you don't feel like you are being respected, then you do what ever you think needs to be done (within reason, we do not condone physical punishment) perhaps move him to a less comfortable place?
Would you consider attending a parenting programme? We often rave about them on here, you can learn some really useful techniques and also see that you are a great parent!
Hi Anna : ) I think I've mentioned this before... but on my parenting course there was a woman who camly explained to us all that in order to get her daugter to sit in the time out place (she had a chair) she had tied her daughter to it.
Not that I'd recomend you do that Zippy : )
This is the parenting course I went on, Bangor University runs them from it's child psychology department, or used to, actualy I'm not sure how it works but they are involved somehow localy. I also have this book which has a chapter for everything child behaviour related : ) you could probably get it from your local library but having my own copy has been very handy from time to time... most recently with lying.
Later : )
I was fortunate to do the course and get the book too. And it really has been incredibly helpful in this household.
doesn' mean I don't get to screaming point though
Yikes bubblegum, I don't think I have read that story before! I guess tying our children up is one way to do it! It would certainly get the message across I suppose! Was she a much older woman? I have friends who used to have to stand in a bucket of freeezing cold water in the cobwebby closet under the stairs - I always thought that was particularly mean and haven't looked at the mum in the same way since I heard it!
She was in her thirties I suppose.
Blimey, if a parent on one of my courses said that, they would have to be reported to social services. Do you know if anything further happened with this case?
Did she learn other ways of dealing with time out?
She had been sent on the course by social services, they were involved in her life. The two women running the course sort of paused and then polity and as nicely as possible explained that she should not do that.
Gosh, I bet that stunned the group! Do you think that she got much out of the course?
Hi zippy, how is your son doing at the moment? Are you using time out?
I think that everyone who stayed to the end of the course got something out of it, a few droped out though along the way.
Hi anna not had to do time out for the last few days as not really had my little man much what with work and everything so his dad has had him and he's been at nursery.
Would never dream about tying a child to a chair and am surprised that others would do it.
Yes, poor child, I studied her case at college, and what was almost as bad was the way the psychologists treated her afterwards.
Hope you are Ok zippy, you have been very busy!
Don't get me wrong by my last comment I know these and worse things happen.
Yes Louise a very busy week but don't mind too much as off on holiday on saturday
I wasn't assuming anything Zippy, just your comment made me thing about Genie, there was a film years ago based on her : )
I've never heard of the story before but it makes interesting reading
Are you going away for your hols zippy?
Hi Louise, Yeah we are. Just doing a split week of staying with my uncle for a few nights and then a friend for a few nights
That will be a nice change, hope you both enjoy it!
Thanks
Have a good break zippy, look forward to hearing all about it when you get back. I hope your son is in good form.
Remember if he misbehaves, just grab him and hug him really tight until he calms down, then you can talk to him
Good Luck
Good luck - I hope others are on soon to offer some advice - I'll be watching closely as I currently have a 3 year old who listens when i count to 3... I have wondered what to do when that stops working! :)
BTW have there been any big changes for him as the behaviour is recent? moves? people in or out of his life? tiredness levels - of yourself or him?