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My husband walked out after 16yrs [out of the blue] last September. Our son was 1. We'd had a hard time conceiving him [7 years trying naturally and then IVF] and when he was born, up until he was approx 11 months, he had bowel dysfunction, colic and reflux and didn't know what 'sleep' was for more than 1.5/2 hrs at a time. He screamed / cried a lot in pain and discomfort and tiredness and wouldn't travel very far in the car, on the bus.. wouldn't even go in his pram half the time. It was just a bit tough, let's just say that - and with my husband self employed, he couldn't say no to the work and he was offered some new contracts when our son was about 5/6 months old and his workload increased 10 fold. I was a mess, he was a mess.. it was all a mess and neither of us ever sat down and discussed it properly.
Anyway.. this day came and he seemingly just 'snapped'. Said he didn't want to live this way anymore, that he felt unwanted, invisible and that he knew we would be fine without him. He took a bag of underwear and some work clothes and that was it. I had post natal depression - I never told him this as I could see how much he was struggling with his work/shifts etc and I even tried to hide it. Seems I did too good a job, because he was gobsmacked when I told him about 3 months after he left.
Around that 3 month ish mark, I found out he was seeing someone [he'd been seeing her since about 6 weeks after leaving us] He lived with his parents for that time and my mother in law said he would literally go to work and come right home, barely went out, so I don't think it started until that 6 week mark. Within 6/7 weeks of me finding out, he'd moved in with her. They still live together 2 streets away [talk about rubbing our noses in it?]
I was devasted when he left.. I was completely broken when he told me about her. We tried so long and so hard for our baby and I loved my family more than anything on this earth. I still do. I can't seem to seperate my husband from my son, they are one and the same to me. Problem is, he didn't believe me and still doesn't. He still thinks I wanted him gone. I tried all ways to get him to understand things were not the way he thought they were, that he got it wrong, but he said he couldn't believe me.. that I was hurting only because I was lonely - not because of 'him leaving' - and that I would be fine soon enough and move on.
At about 5 months after he left, I asked him to come back. He said he couldn't, that it wouldn't work, that he wasn't the man he used to be [he very quickly in fact gained weight, let his hair grow, changed the way he dresses, gained facial hair.. just seemed as though he stopped caring about his appearance / himself.. he's also a lot more angry than he ever used to be.. it's as though he's had a kind if 'mini breakdown'??] and that he was sorry for everything. He also said he was filled with guilt and fear and heartache because he never 'wanted' to leave us in the first place, but believed it was what I wanted and he hurt so much.
This just broke me completely when he said no. 'Devastated' doesn't even come close to how I felt then, and still do, although I am getting stronger.. I don't cry myself to sleep every night anymore, it took me 10 months to go back to sleeping in our bed but I am back there now and I don't watch him and 'her' in my head etc, although all the things I share with my son [he's 2 now] that my husband misses out on, cripples me on a daily basis. He still has to come and take his stuff, too - he only took some clothes, everything else is still here and he hasn't changed his address with anyone and his business is still registered at this address?? I've asked him why and he keeps saying he's too busy. None of it will affect 'her', I know that.
We slept together many times [stopped now.. I realised I was being a total fool to myself] The last time we did, I told him I couldn't anymore.. that I was still making love to my husband while he was just 'having sex'. He denied that last part but said nothing else. [He still tries it on with me even now and it's all just bizzare because he has a 'thing' with infidelity - he hates it - he was never unfaithful to me and always scorned men/women who do it.. but he's been doing it to 'her' with me, so..?? Just not 'him' at all] He often tells me he misses us terribly, that he's really sorry for everything.. but that he hurt badly and never wants to be hurt like that again and so won't let his walls down/trust me. He also keeps telling me he is a 'mess and doesn't know what he's doing'. He says 'she' is a lovely person and that he feels safe with her, but he doesn't know if he feels anything more for her. He still maintains that he is not the man he used to be and that I am to blame because I made him feel discarded for so long. To an extent, he isn't the man I married BUT but I still catch many glimpses of the man he was when I'm with him, which is often as he sees our son regularly.
Yesterday, he txt me to ask some personal details. I asked what for and he said he was 'filling in some forms'. I asked if they were divorce forms and he replied 'Are you in a hurry, then?' [I've asked him to divorce me asap so that I don't have to face all of these memories dragged up a year or two or three in the future when I would have hopefully healed, but he's not done it - it's at minimum cost because we've agreed everything.. neither of us will be contesting anything, so why he won't I don't know?] Anyway, I replied saying that I'm not the one who wants nor needs one.. but that he is/does and so could he just get on with it. He ignored me and replied that he was renewing his life insurance with a new company and kept me as the main beneficiary. Why would he do that?? He said it would all come to me and our son. I said about 'her' and her son and how it's ridiculous of him to have me as the main recipient, but he insisted and didn't want to discuss it any further.
I see him in total 8 times a week with him collecting our son/dropping him off and creche etc [he won't let me take him to creche as he wants to see him] I've asked him to keep strict contact between us as only for our son's sake and not for him to be here at my home on his days with him, but he always 'hangs about' and starts conversations, telling me about work and his physio on his shoulder and about new music he's been listening to. He acts so 'normally' it's bizzare, as if all is well and I'm just fine with everything??
As soon as I make the move to cut that kind of contact and remind him he left us and he chose another woman and her family over us, and now I am trying my best to move on, he gets defensive and says it isn't like that at all and he then txts me random nonsense and sends me music videos when I don't contact him for a few days [I only ever contact him re our son.. I used to send constant heartfelt emails explaining things/myself for months, but I've stopped that, too]
I just want your advice and perpectives on what the hell is going on in his head?? And do I walk away permanently now? Do I file for the divorce? Or do I keep fighting? My family mean everything to me.. the reason I wanted a child in the first place was because it was with him. I'm not someone who just 'gives up' on things that are important to me, but it's been a year now and I am running out of the emotional strength to keep doing this, to keep being confused and wondering 'what if'. I don't want to give up.. and as soon as I start to, he sees it and seems to 'dig his heels in'. Why? And just to add, my son and I are very close to his family. I'm not close to my own. I'm trying to bring about some kind of distance between us now but they are acting as they always have and see us every day. It's wonderful and I need them, I love them to pieces. Do I distance myself or not? They tell me they want nothing to do with this other woman because of how 'it' happened all too quickly, so I can't see them accepting her into the family for a very long time, if at all. Thing is, it keeps that 'contact' to my husband for me.. it's hard enough I have it because of our son.
Hi Morrigan,
You have been through a lot for the past few years even before your husband left (ivf, poorly baby etc.). You say you are now starting to feel stronger which is good. You have spent the past year 'grieving' your husband when he left but now you feel stronger I think you should start to look forward and accept he is gone. Perhaps he is having a 'mini breakdown' but that is his issue to deal with now not yours. You cant stay waiting for him forever because you have yours and your sons life to deal with and you husband made the choice (for whatever reason) to walk away from you both. It seems to me he wants a new life with his new girlfriend but he also wants to keep the old life he has with you - effectively having his cake and eating it. In order to do this he is continuing to play with your head by blaming you for him going, trying to convince you its what you wanted and then trying to keep the spark alive by sleeping with you. He is wrong for doing this and you deserve better. If it was me I would probably file for divorce as he has had a year to come back to you and try and work on things but has continued with his other relationship. The divorce will say this relationship is 'over' and that seems to be something he is reluctant to say but he is happy enough to live with somebody else and that is unfair on you. Your son is only two now so he will easily accept how things are with you and your dad but if this relationship carries on as it is till he is older he will become confused about the situation.
It is a shame you are not close with your own family but there is no reason to completely cut off his family as you have bonds there. I would be very clear with them and say that you are making changes in your life and you want to move forward so you are going to be reducing any contact with your husband to just contact about your son and ask them to kindly respect this by not inviting him round when you are there or not acting as a messenger for him etc. Hopefully they can respect this and you can continue to receive support from them.
I know it is hard now but things will get better once you have taken back control and are not sat in limbo over this man. This site will help you lots as we have all been through similar and .... survived feeling much better than we ever thought we could so have faith hun, I wish you well x x x
Just seen you additional post, and you HV is right you have to be strong and insist your husband doesnt spend any longer than necessary in your home (or even at all, perhaps meet in neutral territory?)
Please try not to be suckered in when your husband says those things about you going out with them, he is being incredibly selfish and needs to accept and live with the choices HE has made. Be firm and tell him that you will no longer entertain any time with him as you are making plans to move YOUR life forward and he just has to accept it.
Thanks, littleangel :) Why do men - and women - do this? They walk away but then 'hang on', or at least keep you hanging on. He went away with work for a little while a few months back and that was the most 'at ease' I'd felt in a long time or since. I missed him and worried about him as I always do, but it seemed to be easier not seeing him at all. Why tell me these things and keep trying it on? He could have any woman if he put his mind to, it really wouldn't be difficult for him, so why keep coming back to me/hanging on to me when he evidently doesn't want me?
He knows that no matter what happens I will never stop him seeing our son. He's not and never will be a violent man or a nasty person, he's so loving and gentle and always has been. There is no reason why I would stop access to my son.. as I said, he knows this. Plus the fact there are a billion women out there who he could go after [while he is with or without 'her' as he obviously doesn't care too much for the woman] I just want him to leave me be but I really don't want to cause a big scene about it all, I just don't have the strength left. He's not coming back.. there is nothing meaningful nor powerful enough here to bring him back [he says it's best for my son and I!?] so why doesn't he just quit the nonsense - divorce me - and stay away from me? 
Hello again Morrigan, I have just said hi to you on the other thread. I have now made that a read only, as we ask you when you are introducing yourself and telling your story just to stick to one thread so we can all contribute and give you the best support, Ok?
It is difficult to second guess what is going on in his head....he could be feeling guilty, he could be enjoying the power, but the fact remains he chose to leave and he needs to deal with the consequences of that whether that is not sleeping with you anymore or that you will not just be there at the snap of his fingers to share text conversations and jokes with. Whilst you continue to engage with him then he is not experienceing the full consequences of his actions. Of course. speak civilly with him on matters concerning your son and his parenting time with him, but there you need to draw the line. This is very easy for me to say and very difficult for you to do!!!!
I agree with your HV, get your son's dad to take him out when he sees him. It is MASSIVELY confusing for him for daddy to hang round the house then disappear. In this way, your son experiences the trauma of your split every time his dad comes then leaves. Much kinder for him to see that daddy and mummy do NOT live together anymore.
Sorry this is so tough, what you are going through is a total nightmare but the good news is that there are plenty of us here to hold your hand 
Louise :) Thanks Xx
Yeah, I know what's needed, just my husband makes it very difficult and my son doesn't help matters [not his fault, love him] because he has this seperation thing and since it started getting worse about 6 months ago, as soon as he sees his dad at the front door he's trying to get his coat off and get him to come in to see his 'choo choos' and books. It's heartbreaking. We try to get him out of the house asap as soothly as possible and with as little fuss - BUT there are those times where my husband comes in, says he'll have a 'quick cuppa' and starts playing with my son instantly!? It's as though he then thinks 'well there's not much she can say now' and I just don't want to be the big bad bear in my son's eyes by it being me who says 'time to go with daddy now' and stop their playing with his toys.
Thing is, I am nowhere near ready for him to take my son to meet this woman either and not only that, her own son has had some sort of troubles in his life.. my husband was foolish enough to tell me ages ago that she is a fragile woman who has had some bad relationships in the past.. so I gather her son sleeps with her still [he's 15!] due to whatever traumas have gone on re that. That's the picture I get, anyway.. and as a result, I don't want my son within a mile of the house let alone just her. I admit, I am very bitter toward 'her' because she has known my husband for years, she knew about us, we're married, the IVF, that my son was just a year old when she took my husband home from the pub that night.. so I have zero tolerance or sympathy nor understanding for her or hers. My son will not be ending up in the mess hers has. I've purposely turned down 3 opportunities to meet someone else over the past year because for one, I haven't felt ready enough, but most importantly I'm not bringing some man into my son's life that will most like be a case of rebound and might end 6 months/a year down the line and then he 'disappears', too. Why why why can't my husband just do as I ask. He left! He doesn't want his family! So why doesn't he just bog off, be happy with the 2 days with my son 'away' from here and leave me alone. I tell you, I'm already broken.. he's just stamping on the shreds that are left. However, for reasons I cannot explain, I've turned a corner in at least so much as I'm no onger begging him to reconsider, sending emails etc and balling my eyes out every ten mins. I just don't know how to get him to 'properly' move on himself so I get the chance to, without it ending in a big argument and ill feeling.
Hey Morrigan. It sounds very stressful what your husband is doing to you. I would be tempted to file for divorce yourself rather than wait for him to do something. Let him realise through your actions that you mean it. It's possible he thinks he can have his cake (ie:the time with the other woman and no night time disturbances) and eat it (ie: still treat your home and you as his whenever the mood takes him). Taking the divorce into your own hands might help you to feel like you are incontrol of the situation and feel more positive about it all, which will also help your son to feel better (children are so tuned in to how we feel). Lay down some clear boundries with your husband about contact with your son so that you don't feel like he's putting you in a difficult position; speak to him about it when your son is not with you so you can be honest without upsetting your son or looking like the bad person here, because you are not. Best of luck with it all, it is difficult but it will be for the better in the long run. :)
ladytelita, thanks Xx
I've tried that, hun. I've sat him down, emailed him, txt him - I've asked and explained him until I'm blue in the face. On the rare occasion I have lost the plot with it all, I've 'told him' outright that he isn't welcome here anymore [didn't know how else to get it through to his stupid skull] and then there's an argument and he ends up saying he misses me!? He does - he still does treat this place like he lives here 'part time'. He's in the fridge, making cups of coffee, using the PC upstairs, putting CDs on, feet up playing on the couch with the baby. I am trying to do this without there ending up ill feeling because then all civility goes out the window and I really don't want that. The last time we had a major argument, he 'hinted' at my using my son as a weapon - he KNOWS differently, but he knew it was the only ammunition he had that would rile me up. I'm just losing the will here. I met a guy a few weeks ago, talked a load, kissed some.. he never called << I should care about things like that by now, surely? But I don't. Half of me wants my husband back, my awesome family back together.. and the other half of me wants to put my son and I on a one way ticket somewhere far, far away.
I think I'm going to have to find the balls to start the divorce myself. It's inevitable, plus I really dread it being all dragged up God knows when in the future - probably the day I wake up to it being the first day 'since' that I don't feel sick.. to find 'the letter' on the doormat. That'd just be my luck.
Hi Morrigan and welcome to One Space from me
It sounds as though you are both in a confusing mess. Would he consider going to counselling with you to try and work out what is exactly going on here?
It sounds as though he does want to be with you however he enjoys the 'attention' the other woman gives him. You have a small child so all you 'attention' is on him and often partners find that they feel ousted from a very close relationship.
I agree wtih Louise your ex has to feel the consequences of his behaviour. Time to put your foot down, he has to move his stuff out (how are you expected to live with the constant reminder) and stop using your address.
When he realises that you are not going to play ball anymore, he will have to sit down and have a real think about what it is that he wants.
It is time for you to take control of the situation as he will carry on like this for as long as he can. Yes he feels guilty and probably unsure of what he is doing, but you are not his mother, you are his ex partner.
When are you due to see him next?
Hi Anna.. thanks Xx
We swapped days due to his work, so he just came to collect our son. He arrived at 10am, didn't leave until 10.25am.. that's how long it took me to 'politely' get him out of the house. I didn't want a ruckus infront of my little one, so I stayed calm, polite and kept my voice/tone down.. I said that from my own feelings, from what the HVs have said and what I have read on different parenting forums and advice from others, too, that it's unhealthy and confusing for our son to see daddy 'here at home' and then gone for 2 days.. then back for 5 mins [to collect him to go to creche] then gone then back again for 5 mins [collect him from creche] THEN back the next day for a whole day and so on.. it goes on that way every week. I've said this to him literally 20 times over now and he always says the same thing in reply: 'No one knows a child's mind except the child himself.. this will all become perfectly normal and routine.. you're worrying over nothing'.
What my husband fails to understand is while he maybe staying the way he is - unsure, unfaithful and uncaring, able to see our son whenever he wants to [he doesn't, but with his work he has random times off and would spend them all with him if he could] I may well meet someone at some point and then the changes will be too much for my son, because daddy won't be able to be 'here' as much as if I allowed it from the beginning iykwim. And maybe things will change with my husband and 'she' won't be as 'understanding' all of a sudden that he spends so much time here and so on. Anything could happen/change at any point. The routine is bloody important and I wish he would just accept it.
I need it for myself, too. I miss him so much, it's so hard to say things to make him leave when in reality I want the exact opposite to happen I love being with them. I spent 7yrs of my life dreaming of this, trying for it every month, breaking my heart and feeling useless to my husband with every pee stick that came back negative. I don't want to miss out on the time with my son, either.
I feel like I'm whining, have to say. I'm reading the thread from 'Imdoingthis' and other peoples issues are so much worse/harder than my own. I just feel so stuck, controlled, trapped, unsure what is and isn't 'best' for our son and I miss my husband so much and it's crippling to have to see him so often. We've tried the 'neutral territory' re collecting/dropping of our son.. it doesn't work. My mother in law's is the only place I can leave him for my husband to collect him/drop him off, but because of how bad he his with the seperation anxiety, my parents in law can't cope, it breaks their hearts to watch him like that. It's unfair to have to put them through it. DEEP breath. He was the same when he came here this morning as always.. came in, sat down [I was trying my best to get my son's coat on without too much fuss and hassle, but he kept running off to get his train for daddy to see] and he instantly started telling me about an accident he had in work last night.. then he mentioned he hadn't had a cuppa since he got up.. I mean ???? HOW many times do I have to say it all to him for crying out loud.
Oh and re the counselling.. I did mention it and he said absolutely nothing. Literally. I sat there looking at him and in the end, I said 'I'll take that as a no, then'. He said nothing whatsoever and then said he had to go to work. So it's a no on that score. What's the point, anyway? He's with someone else and however little or much he thinks of her, he's comfortable there.. feels safe.. I know from friends etc that she dribbles all over him and worships him, so he has it all right now, doesn't he. Why would he give that up for someone he doesn't believe - someone he doesn't trust - someone he'd have to work very hard to rebuild a relationship with?
Hi Morrigan, so how about the first thing, is that he doesn't come in to your home?
Do you know what time your son is coming back? Is there something or someone you could go and visit straight after?
If so, how about being outside with the front door shut. Then when they arrive, say to your son, say goodbye to Daddy, we are going to XYZ or Lets wave Daddy goodbye from the front gate.
Regardless of what your ex or your son says, this is your home and what goes on in it, is up to you. Be queen of your castle. It will be hard, but it is time to take control.
Anna, thanks Xx
Took your advice. We never get chance to talk because we only ever see each other when the baby is around, so I emailed him and set out the boundaries - again. I explained about him being here playing with the baby and then 'up and leaving' is no good - the baby shouldn't be subjected to that when he doesn't understand the reason behind it, although I've told him all this before I went into great detail this time and explained it all. You know what he did? - he completely ignored my email and txt me this morning to ask how our son is [I've asked him to not contact me unless absolutely necessary] I felt bad for not replying and didn't want a fuss, so I replied that 'he's fine'. He txt to ask what he was doing.. I replied 'playing' and that was it.
He then txt and said he 'has the day off because he's hurt his hand and that as it's such a lovely day, if I need a lift [I don't drive] to take the baby somewhere for the day, to let him know anytime'. Have I been talking to the wall all these months or what?? I just replied 'We've had this conversation! Thanks but NO thanks and that I was leaving my phone at home today because I don't want these conversations anymore, I'd like a 'day off' and he replied 'Under no circumstances should you leave your phone at home while you and the baby are out on your own'. I just 
and replied nothing.
I'm starting my Uni course in 2 weeks.. I have no one else to have my son the 2 evenings a week while I'm there, except for my husband. As I said above, I can't work p/t because there is no point money wise.. can't do full time due to no babysitter, nor can I do lates or earlies etc, so I'm going back to Uni to get myself qualified for our futures so that I have a much better chance of finding a term time job as he starts school next September. But I'll be seeing even more of my husband than I already do! I feel so lost, I'm stuck no matter which way I turn, whatever I try to do.
Hi Morrigan, well done for laying down the ground rules, however you forgot the vital one - stick to them!!
You told him how it was going to be and your ex then pushed at the borders and you responded. If you have said Do not contact me unless absolutely necessary, when he texts - you have to ignore it. You have to show him that you mean it. I know that you say you don't want a fuss, but there is going to be some kind of fuss. It is like parenting a child. You say they can't have something they may kick and scream - you tell them you will not tolerate that behaviour, they stop and move onto something else. If you give in, they know that you don't mean what you say and can manipulate you to their advantage.
You have to be the one who shows everyone how things will be from now on.
So you will be 'seeing' your husband more than you already do, however, this does not mean that you need to communicate more than you do. You will both know times and days, so there is little to talk about other how your boy has been.
As soon as these arrangements start up, will be the best time to get those boundaries in place. Expect him to leave as soon as you get home, no time for a cuppa and a catch up on your days. You have work to do, you have a bath to have, you have supper to get, you have a bed to get to, whatever. You do not want him thinking this is a great opportunity to have some 'free' time with you.
Thanks, Anna Xx
I'm weak as water with him, I know this of myself 
I try not to be, I try to be strong and stay determined and also try to avoid fuss and argument at the same time.. just still miss him so, so much it's horrendous to look him in the eye and say things to him that I don't mean and/or don't want to have to say, though I know I need to say them and do them - and for him to believe I mean them. A big part of me I'm trying to ignore [and maybe shouldn't] knows that time is running out. 'Absence' hasn't meade the heart grow fonder by the looks of things, although he tells me more the past few months he misses me/us more than ever before.. I miss him as much as ever, but I can feel it all starting to slip away, any chance for us at all seems to be too far away now, if not gone completely and it's just my 'hope' that keeps me thinking I can still 'see it'.
How do I word this now? After the txts back and forth earlier - which were 'amicable' to a point - for me to now seemingly 'turn the tables' will probably rile him and an argument will ensue. If he txts me, what do I say? Maybe something like 'I've given it a lot of thought and it isn't going to work having this kind of contact with you. I've tried, but it's no good. We need to limit contact to Is only and on a 'need to know' basis only from this point on.' << That ok you think? And yes.. I have to stick to it thereafter. It's almost been a year.. if I don't start sticking to my word soon, he's going to keep walking all over me. I don't want that anymore.
Hi Morrigan you may have noticed that i have edited your sons name in your post we do ask that users not use actual names so that users and their families can remain anonmous. Oh and also welcome from me (i have been on my hols for a few weeks)
Anyhow to what you want to say to your ex, i can't see anything wrong in what you have written, though you could use the change in situation i.e Uni and other stuff so it could go something like "I have been thinking about and planning things for when i go to uni and how things will have to change around here as i am going to be so busy and will need to maintain as much off a rountine as possible for Is, so i think it would work better if you keep contact to only arranging contact and say once aweek to check on how Is is" you can add anything else you want to stipulate or use what you have put, the key will be keeping to what you say you want to happen!!
You can do it!
Bugger, sorry. I get carried away in my thoughts when I'm writing.. didn't realise I had added his name, oops. Sorry.
Well I've put it all down in black and white and I'm determined to stick to it now. I really have to, I don't actually have any choice left. Time is going on, as I said. Let me know what you think of the following before I send it:
I've attached my weekly diary, it's plenty advance warning so we know where we are with days/times etc. If there's any problem with you having ***** on those evenings, please say now because once I start the course it's going to be hard to get out of and all of my benefits stop as of the 17th due to a grant and student loan. It takes weeks to sort a new claim to IS etc.. so tell me now if there are any problems with any of it? [it's my weekly thing I've attached but you're on there.. I'm not doing 2]
RE money.. you said we'd talk another time.. well there's really not much to discuss. Unless I had found a part time job of 15hrs [it's all I could do under the rules] earning £20+ an hour, you would have still have had to help with paying the mortgage every month, so there's no difference there with me being a student. Where creche fees are concerned I'm picking up the form tomorrow. The payments need to come from my account, so I'll have to go up once a month to pay. I've been advised that I can receive an 85% discount of up to £161 p/wk - ***** fees come to £114, so there should be no problem. I need £70 a month to cover the remainder. I will need a little help every week with *****.. I've worked out £30 will cover things like clothes/books etc, I'll cover food and nappies and so on. So if you can transfer £200 at the beginning of each month, please? That'll cover it. I'll need some extra help this month, like last, as my tax credits have been stopped completely [I'm still very grateful to you and 'her' for that little gem..] but come the end of this month though, it should be fine and I won't need anymore than I've just said.
As of tomorrow, you really do need to be in and out right away with *****. I keep saying it, I keep going back on it and it's not fair on either of us, so I'm telling you again, as politely as I can.. just pick him up and drop him of as quickly as possible. On college nights, you and I will have nothing to talk about unless one of us needs to know something about the baby, so same there - just leave when I get home, please. No cuppas, no chit chat.. I don't want to spend time with you anymore. I need my head as sorted and as clear for this course as possible or I'm going to fail.. and that is not an option for me. I'm very grateful for you saying you can sit him these 2 evenings and I'm pretty sure you're telling me the truth when you say you don't mind, but if you can appreciate my point of view re the way things are, I really would not have asked you if I had any other choice. You don't particularly want to be here in this house and I don't want you to be here anymore, but I'm stuck.. you're his father.. and I really do need to do this degree considering my circumstances.
I keep mentioning the divorce.. you keep ignoring me re it.. can you just get it started? With d/l all the forms off the net, it's much cheaper and I'll pay half the court cost [which is only making it all legal and signing with a witness etc] as I won't be contesting anything. We agreed everything months ago, nothing has changed. I don't mind if you want to sell the house if you want? ***** really would love a garden, so maybe if my hand is forced it might end up a good thing for us both to leave here anyway. I can't afford for this to all be dragged up in a year or two or worse 3, when I'm doing my final year. It's what you want so can you just get on with it, please? Really don't understand why you're dragging your heels with it. You've gone, made your bed and you're not coming back. You've made this all clear to me, so why the delay? You couldn't possibly hurt me anymore than you already have, so don't keep putting it off in fear of that.
As for your stuff, can you do something about it - and soon? It's been a year! Bag it/box it and make room in our attic here if you absolutely have to, but I want it out of my sight now - except the books I mentioned re *****. And if you want your computer, no problem..it is yours after all.. but let me know asap, as I'm going to need to get one for my coursework.
Hi Morrigan
what a roller coaster you're on! I had a friend whose husband did pretty much the same thing and it only stopped when she got involved in a serious relationship again. They do seem to like their cake and eat it.
Apart from what you're already doing I really haven't any ideas, but I thought I'd show some moral support. What are you going to study? It's always exciting to make a new start on something. So hopefully this new thing will take your mind of your husband a lot. :-)
Hugs x
Thanks, Hopeful Xx
I'm really hoping it does take my mind off things and to as big an extent as possible. I'm going to launch myself into it and concentrate on nothing but it and my son. It's a Bsc in Psychology with English and Education << to be honest, I don't think I'll have to 'try' to lose myself in it lol. [Just hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew!]
Just out of curiosity.. what happened to your friend's husband afterward? Did he move on/stay with the other woman etc?
Oh and Anna.. re my email.. I've sent it. It was playing on my nerves sitting in my drafts and if he has anything to say, he can say it tomorrow while the baby is at creche if he needs to. It's impossible to talk when the baby is here as he demands my husband's attention 100%, so.. I doubt he'll have anything to say, as usual, except 'yeah, ok, I agree, all fine with me' and then continue exactly as he has done for the past 12 months! 
Hi there,
I haven't read everything on this thread just yet, but it kinda sounds like if anyone's using your son, it's him - in order to keep his "feet under the table". Going upstairs and using the PC? He's taking the p*ss?
My advice would be to take control of the situation decisively and take the first steps towards divorce yourself. It sounds to me like he doesn't want to be with you but he doesn't want anyone else to have you either - to my mind, he's being a bit of a kid about it.
THe thing with setting boundaries is learning to enforce them and when people aren't used to you setting boundaries, they tend to ignore or trample over them. Could you drop your son off at his in future? Or have him ready and kind of hand him over at the door without letting him in? I'm not an expert, but a quiet look or a firm word to him, even in front of your son, would probably show him you're serious - and I really don't think would cause your son lasting damage - I'm obviously not suggesting having a full scale arguement with him, but you (understandably) resisting laying down the law in front of your child is another way of him using your child to manipulate you into playing house and to make it hard for you to move on. However, It sounds to me that you are getting a bit fed up and even though you still care about him, it sounds like you're beginning to realise that he is being a bit of an **** and are starting to get over it a bit.
You sound pretty strong and I think he'll live to regret this - but personally? I'd move on and have a happy life and find a nice man (when you're ready) who isn't having a breakdown and can man up and do what's required of a partner and a father!
And finally: Oh boo hoo - you didn't make him feel wanted enough? What was he doing to take care of your needs while you were busy protecting his feelings from everything? As a grown up sometimes it's not about how much someone makes you feel wanted - it's about how much you really are needed!!! I don't have very much sympathy for him on that one... or at all actually.
Emma, thanks Xx
Yeah, it's only this past few weeks, maybe a month, I've been able to think 'boohoo, poor him' whereas before [all along, actually] I've had sympathy because he's going through 'something' [you only have to look at his appearance nowadays to see that, let alone anything else] and I wanted to help him, to let him know I understand and that I'm 'here' for him. Also, it doesn't help that I'm one of those people who always feels like I'm being a martyr if I take any sympathy/understanding of myself iykwim? - for example: when all is said and done, he left me after having IVF [I genuinely only did it for him in the end as I've always been opposed to it] on my own [he knows full well I'm not close to my family, I don't get to see friends very often and he had no idea his parents were going to be as supportive as they have of me] with PND and a 1yr old who wasn't sleeping more than 2hrs at a time, while on the verge of losing my job. What did he care about me, eh? It's time I started reinforcing these thoughts - facts! - and stuck to my guns. I know this, I know it! So why do I have so much trouble keeping my word?
I am going to try my absolute hardest from now on though. I don't think it's going to be as hard as it has. as I really have had enough of being '2nd best' now and when I think of my son, how he has been basically 'passed over' for another woman and her son? Jesus H it makes my flamin blood boil. I just don't have the words to describe the feeling. I can't bare the thought of admitting he uses my son to manipulate me, either, but he does doesn't he? That's the truth of it. He's just changed in such massive ways, I barely recognise the man anymore. He replied to my email "Nt had chance to read all of your mail, I will do asap and reply asap" - that was 2 and a half hrs ago.. I'm not getting a reply tonight I don't think, if at all? Well, tomorrow when he collects my son to take hm to creche, I won't be avoiding it like I have done.. I'm asking him outright 'Can I have a reply to my email, please? - as in right after you drop ***** off at creche' and we'll see what he has to say.
Hi Morrigan, well done for getting that email out.
Now I want you to look at the email again and make each paragraph into one sentence. ie:
Childcare - Is there going to be a problem?
Money - I would like £200 per month
Contact - I only want to see you briefly when we exchange info on our son.
Divorce - Start the proceedings
House - What are you going to do with it?
Belongings - Remove them...
This means that you have a clear idea of what you are asking for without any of the extra emotions tangled up in it. So when he sends the email or decides to discuss it with you. You are completely straight on the issues you want fixing without any other discussion or emotional blackmail coming into it.
What you are asking for is not unreasonable for you to need to know. So keep to the facts. One lesson of Assertiveness is when someone tries to disagree with you. You keep repeating your wish in the same manner. The point eventually gets through.
Good mornign, Morrigan,
friend's husband stayed with other woman. My friend is happily married to new guy though, so I don't think she cares. :-)
Psychology is scary! I am studying nursing and that's hard enough! x
Thanks, Anna Xx
Hmm, my email would have come across a lot better/assertive/meanigful even, if I had paraphrased it like you have. Well it's sent now and he came this morning for the bay and mentioned nothing of it - in fact, this morning was one of the quickest pick ups I think he's ever done. ***** was playing up, didn't want to go in the car because he wanted to stay here and play with his new truck, so it was all a bit chaotic, too and I ended up putting him in the car as he just would not go for G. I worried he'd miss breakfast in creche aswell, so it was all a big rush. I don't have the capacity right now to txt or call him re the email, I had a rubbish night's sleep and right now is a break from cleaning and then off to help my friend with her stall. I'm in no mood and no time to get into all that right now with him. I have absolutely no idea why he's dragging his heels with this. The cost is at minimum, neither of us are contesting anything and I've told him there is no going back now [asked him 3 times over the past year to come back and promised him, and myself, that last time I asked was the last time - and that is something I've managed to stick to!] So why won't he just say yes, ok and get on with it? This is all so infuriating and I can't move on properly while it's all hanging in the air like this.
Hopeful Xx
Yeah, I can see G staying with his girlfriend.. I can also see him being unfaithful to her with other women, too. He says he's only been unfaithful to her with me [err.. even though it's 'us' who are actually married!?] because he still has so many feelings for me and he's a mess and doesn't know what he wants, but I'm at a loss with that now. Starting to think it's all nonsense. I hope it is anyway, for his sake, because I'm seriously coming to the end of my patience with it all now.
Nursing? That's more scary to me! lol :)
Hi Morrigan, I don't think that you have to tackle anything more right at this minute, you have stated what you want and the ball is now in his court.
Perhaps have a date in mind when you would like some answers though. Perhaps next week Tuesday? That gives him a week to mull over your questions.
Then you can send another email being brief and to the point about what your expectations for deadlines are. Otherwise you will take things further.
This way, you can now get on with your life a little more and doesn't go round and round your head. You have a week to think about you and your life and your ex has some time to think about it and respond too.
I would also suggest that you make a deadline date in your mind for when you want his stuff removed. I have found if I create a deadline date, I am more likely to make things happen rather than wait for them to change.
What do you think?
Well he hasn't listened, again. I've been strong, denied his advances and ignored his innuendos. I asked him last week to either get the divorce started or he and 'her' will have to wait 4 years, that I will not involve myself in it until my studies are over and that if he cares anything for me still, he'll just get on and do it now. V long story, but I ended up spending the day with him and my son last week. It ended up we had a wonderful day together.. my son was happy and shared his attention with us both [not usual for him as daddy gets it all when he's around and I'm fine with that but it was really nice to 'be a family'] I know it's not 'real' like it used to be, that we aren't a 'family' anymore.. but it was just so nice to sort of 'have a day off' from feeling the way I do all the time and to have us all smiling and relaxed and enjoying each other's company. The end of the day came though and off he went home.. so once again I fell to pieces afterward, it was always the same. It really was the last time [not been with them for ages, I stuck to my guns, but he made it very awkward to say no last week] I'll go with them, because I don't have the strength to have to keep being strong all the time when the day comes to an end.
Something odd happened on our way home though.. hoping someone can give me some unbias advice with it: He started blurting seemingly into the wind, things he needed to get off his chest I think [I'm still the closest person to him that he has, I know this, he barely sees his friends etc, so I let him talk] He was waffling on about lots of different things and then he said 'it's all too complicated.. it's so complicated with her.. and I can't just come back, how do I just come back?.. you don't understand about her, I can't even live on my own.. why can't I make the choices I need to? I wish I could explain about it all..' << What do you think he means by this? - because I'm baffled. To add a little background - he told me a long time ago that she was 'fragile' and had had some bad realtionships in the past. I also read a txt mssg on his phone that he had just a few weeks after he started seeing her - not living with her at the time - it was very long about how much she loved him and needed him and in there it read 'I couldn't contemplate living without you now'. I'm taking a wild guess here that there's some sort of emotional blackmail going on from her and he's stuck in it. I don't think he'd come back to me, but I think he'd leave there if he could. I don't know what to do about it, if anything? I feel like going down there and giving her what for, but in reality it's not my business is it.
The man is an arsewipe, he's a plank.. he has issues with himself more than anything/anyone else.. but he has a heart of gold and I hate to see him like this. He often tells me he thinks I'm much stronger than I let on and that he knows I don't need him and that I'll be ok without him which is why he doesn't believe how fragile I am [he's really believed those things all along, if only he believed the truth ]
Then yesterday he came to collect ***** and hugged me, just out of the blue, with tears in his eyes. He tried to kiss me but I turned away and didn't physically respond to his hug either, I just stood there asking him what did he think he was doing?? He said he missed me and wished things were different. For the first time in all this, I managed to look him in the eye and say 'it's not so simple anymore.. you won't get to walk back in here to open arms now.. you would have to fight, like I have.. beg, even.. it'd be you with everything to prove to me now'. I just don't know how I managed to say it to him, but I'm glad I did. I think he's finally 'getting it' that the tables are turning and I am not a pushover anymore, desperately trying all ways to get him to believe me, to come back and so on. Just God give me strength to keep it up.
Hey Morrigan high five!! I think your response was excellent. It sounds as though it was the truth and came from the heart.
You are absolutely right, the relationship your ex has with his girlfriend is none of your business, so I would suggest that if he brings it up again, you ask him kindly but firmly to keep it to himself.
Remember there are always 3 sides to a story, his side, her side and then the outside point of view!
It sounds as if you had a lovely day out as a 'family', I remember those times when you just want to forget being strong, firm, dealing with it all. However what message are you sending your ex when you do this? You are open again for him to overstep your boundaries. Also when you get home you do come down to reality with a heavy bump and you have to rebuild your resilience again.
I think your ex is right though, I think you are stronger than you imagine, because you fear, love, anger and worry, doesn't make you weak it makes you human. Being assertive, know yourself and what you will and won't accept in your life, that makes you strong. He is recognising that he can't manipulate you in the way that perhaps he used to.
You have done a fine job, well done you
Big hug to you, I know how hard it is! i split with my ex three and a half years ago after he cheated on me, he is now getting married to "her". After we split my ex seemed to think we could still be bes friends which i really struggled with, he used to think that he could just walk into my house and get really funny with me when I wouldnt let him sleep on the sofa at my house!
The advice I would give is to stay strong and stand your ground, do not give into him! It is not going to be easy and it can be very lonely being a single mum but it does get easier with time!
Take care
Sam x
Thanks, Sam.. Anna.. Xx
I don't have much time to post properly in reply [sorry] but looking for some advice at the moment. I've had to reiterate myself - again - to H re him trying it on with me and making excuses to spend time here [on his day with our son] The other day also, he had worked until the early hours.. came here after dropping our son in creche [WHY did he come here!? after all I've said to him about not doing so!?] and had the audacity to ask if I would cuddle up with him to have a sleep. He said he really misses things like that and needed a hug from me. I didn't give it to him and promptly asked him to leave. He's since tried it on AGAIN and I ended up losing my rag and sending him an email, repeating all I've been saying for months, only this time it wasn't exactly 'polite'. I had no reply.. and he turned up the day after to collect our son for creche like all was perfectly ok.
I'm so confused and I feel guilty on others in much worse situations than me, but I love the man dearly.. he's confusing me constantly while I'm trying every which way I can to let him go and move on. It's crippling me. Why won't he listen? Why does he keep giving me hope? I've asked him politely.. I've explained in detail.. I've begged him to have some compassion and leave me to heal.. and now I've even resorted to a scathing email basically telling him to f*** off out of my life and let me move on. I don't know what else to do. Please help. He left me! He is the one who then found someone else and moved straight in. So here I am, 13 months later and still in limbo because he won't let me let him go. Now I'm asking myself if he has feelings for me that he won't state [he's already told me he 'still feels a lot' for me] or is he just playing games because he's enjoying it?? I don't understand and while I admit I am still deeply in love with him, I really need him to stop with his behaviour and stay away from me in that context.
Any and all advice appreciated.. before I end up going flamin kookoo and end up on the floor again, not sleeping and back to 6.5st Why is he doing this and what else can I do to get him to realise how much he's hurting me? [he genuinely doesn't think he is as he still believes I became the mess I did/miss him etc because I was 'lonely' - not because he actually broke my heart and ripped my world apart and I still miss him like crazy]
Hey Morrigan,
sounds like he wants his cake and eat it.
Could you try to have a friend present anytime he is likely to come to your house? Maybe that would keep him at bay a bit? You could even arrange to go to the friend's house the minute your little one gets back from him, could be just for a cup of tea or so?
Wish I had some really good ideas for you! x
I think having a friend there is an excellent idea.
Unfortunately, though, the solution is in your own hands and you need to keep firm boundaries and let him know that he has made his choice and these are the consequences and any "hope" of a reconciliation would have to be him winning you back again from scratch.
Thanks, both Xx Lost my post! :( Back later.
Also, my son has seperation anxiety with his dad. It started before he left us [as my husband's workload incresed and he suddenly wasn't here as much] but it's gotten worse over the months. We're both careful with him and I do all I can to distract him when that time comes for dad to leave/him to leave dad etc, but he's hysterical.. it's absolutely gutwrenching. My HV suggested my husband not be in my son's environment [ie our home] for too long of a day as it's confusing to my son and also is the fact that seeing us together could be, too. I stopped my husband from spending more than 5 mins at a time here, but as I said, he makes excuses to 'hang about'. I also stopped [months ago now] going out with them on their days together as not to confuse my son. My husband still says 'You're more than welcome to come along..' and 'You should come, see him swimming..' and the like. I miss my husband more than anything in this world, but I know that nil contact - or as little as possible, is the only way I'm going to heal properly. I've told him this.. so why won't he give me that space? I'm so confused here. I;m trying to let him go when it seems he hasn't even let me go properly yet