This site is an archive of the OneSpace Forums. Return to forum index.
This site is an archive of the OneSpace Forums. Return to forum index.
I have started this thread as I have come to realise that my mum is 'dysfunctonal' and always has been I am hopeing that one space will be able to help me to work through this and I realise that can be any members of our family's that can be toxic and abusive
looking into my mums behaviour is a reasonably new thing for me, one thing that screens out to me is how I feel relieve from having no contact with her.
when I was young she would always tell me " I always made sure you were well dressed"
and " always had good clean shoes"
I say now well thanks for that mum but what about your emotional ebuse and neglect?
hi hun how are u, my dad was always moody, and now after what ive bin thru i now no my dad treated my mum crap, always putin er down, he stil does,evne my eldest daughter told him off and my son, ive always clashed with my dad, ive neve love or any hugs off my dad, not alot off my mum, love ofr my dad to hug me, he never as, i understand wot ur sayin hunx
Hi Hun
it really effected me still does the way my mum is but it makes me try and give my give my kids what she didn't give me
im really loving with my kids now
iv only just got to know my dad didn't know him growing have so your kids don't like ithey're way he treats her that's good thing that they say they dont like it?
mean my dad as done loads for me dont get me wrong, but emotionaly he asnt x
Do you see your dad much?
im not sure how much I'm ment to see my dad lol
when I'm out I see famalies with the grandma and grandad helping out with the children it all seems perfect dont it? won't wasn't I born into anything like that
i didn't get a sibling aunty uncle a cousin no one! I grew up on my own jeeze if you could pick you family
hi well my dad had brain hemorage and stroke 2 years ago, its made him worse tho, my mum as left him 3 timmes, he treats er worse now, sounds awful but id rather not see my dad, i get wound up or up[set,x
Hi Imdoingthis
Congratulations on seeing what's going on with your Mum and taking some time to work on it.
I stopped contact with my Mum about a year ago and I have been thriving ever since. I know how hard it is to recognise when your Mum is damaging/has damaged you especially as it is such a taboo subject.
I notice some of the traits you mention about fall under the narcissistic category, but she most likely has various different unhelpful personality traits.
To help me understand and deal with my own narcissistic mother I read loads of books, but probably the best one was:
"Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing The Daughters Of Narcissistic Mothers" by Karyl McBride.
To understand the effect by dysfunctional family had on me, I found two books by John and Linda Friel really helpful:
"Adult Children: Secrets of Dysfunctional Families"
and later
"An Adult Child's Guide to What's Normal".
To spot different types of draining and/or toxic people I found "Emotional Vampires: Dealing With People Who Drain You Dry" by Albert J Bernstein really helpful.
I hope this is useful - I love reading so I have read a lot of self help books! I'm here to talk too though as I appreciate books might not be what you're after.
Love Gem
x
Morning good enough mum thanks for the books, I don't read lots but I think I'm going to pick one you suggested as I need to start somewhere in understanding things x
when things kicked off with him and professionals were involved they all kept asking me what's going on with your mum ? I didn't know I used to look blank at them cos I couldn't explaine it I only feel it must be me ? I must be wrong Or not a great daughter if your own mum shuts door on you what else are you left to think x
i was never good enough for 'just being a mum' she used to want me to get a job do the 2.4 children thing
i miscarried once but she didn't allow me tell anyone
shes also very false it's very obvious to me how so fake she iis she has not many friends though
are there any one book you'd recommend as a starting point good enough mum?
and thanks for your support x
Another thing that I struggle with is
that she never once said a word in 16 years of his behaviour towards me
we had one night of just purr hell me and him fighting i was being accused of something I had not done my mum was there he threw his dinner at the wall it was truly horrible
after she never said a word
But guess as long as I wore Clarks shoes I will be fine eh mum ?
hi hun u ok, well my mum always excuses my dads behaviour, she says u no what hes like , she says it all the time,im happier if i dont see my dad,thts the truth, feel awful, cos he nearly dies when he ad brain hemorage and stroke so feel guilty, he spks to my mum like shit, he says things to my kdis i dont approve off, and im not avin it, told my mum kids arnt goin again, mum said my dad as done loads for u, which is true so does tht mean its ok for him to put my kids down x
Thanks so much for starting this thread, IDT, I hope very much you and others will helped to work through your stuff.
That's a good booklist you have been given, you might be able to get one out of the library.
As you know I work as a counsellor and the first thing I can say to you is that it is normal to hold two paralllel feelings for a person who has mistreated you. Just think about how we think about partners that are unkind to us....how many times have you heard "but I love him" as a reason not to leave. This is even more ingrained with our parents, as we have an automatic expectation, and a need, of their unconditional love. So we find it really, really hard to believe that they are REALLY like that, we want to give them another chance, we want it to be alright, we are desperate to have that reassurance that we are loved as we believe a child should be loved, so we keep giving them another chance.
One thing I think it is really helpful to work out, as a starting point is "what do I believe about myself from the messages I received in childhood?" I know that you are a loving mother, IDT, and the messages you want to give to your children might be along the lines of "You are special. I love you, whatever. You are a worthwhile person and you deserve good things. I will always be here for you" So I am guessing that these were messages you did NOT receive?
Even when we get a basically positive message, it can be spoiled by a negative one. For example, although I was lucky with my parents, my sister was a poorly baby and needed a lot of time and love but I noticed as a small child that what got me attention was showing some sort of clever skill, so my message, whilst basically good, was "you have to achieve to be loved" This gave me very low self-esteem and a horror of failure.
Can you see what your pattern was? (this will take some thinking about)
Hi kiera, that is interesting about your dad, I wonder if you think there is a connection between your dad's lack of affection and your choices of partners in adult life?
Hello GEM, I know you have worked through a lot of this stuff already and I respect your decision to sever contact with your Mum as it was clearly the right decision for you
Yeah your right Hun even if your dads helped you doesn't mean you have to put up with him talking to you and your kids like crap
i feel bad about my mum sometimes but she was the one that blocked me out her life and I Sam not going begging her
she made a statement against me in court
my mums been the 'crooks' of a lot of my problems with CAfcass etc as she said iv made it all up
when he hurt me i reported to police she gave a statement to say he was with her
so police had e bad view of me
she has lots to answer for really
X post I will have to read that again x
hi louise thts what i think tht cos of lack of effection from my dad thts why i pick them type of men, yes my dad never hit me or my brother or my mum but it was emotional abuse, thts worse kind of abuse, i think thts alot to do with it why i pick them type of men, im on edge whenever my dad cums round, and he starts on myn mum, i dotn want my kids see tht, but my mum dont understand atall, my mum says thts just wot hes like,or just ignore him, but i cant, and dont want my kids hearin dad talk to my mum like crap, my mum says its me bein awful keepin kids from my dad mum doesnt av aclue wot im on bout, after the realationship i was in i now no bout emotional abuse, bfore i didnt im happier when i dotn see my dad, , i dotn need negativity do i
That sounds sensible kiera, what you are saying is you don't want your children thinking it is Ok for a man to speak to a woman like that (or a woman to a man if it was the other way round) I was thinking that if we don't get enough affection as a child then we are pretty much programmed to seek it elsewhere and the men you have had relationships with DID seem affectionate at first, and full of love, and that is what drew you in even though it was fake.
Just a note in general to everyone about parents...when we start thinking about all these things, there is a tendency either to "blame" our parents or to feel guilty for blaming them. Don't forget your parents are only a product of their OWN parents, and so it goes on, and blaming anyone is pretty fruitless. Better to discover where your feelings come from, so you can understand them, then realise that how you move forward is now YOUR choice.
Hi IDT
This list is taken from Karyn McBride's website. The more you answer yes to the more likely it is she has narcissistic traits in which case starting with "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" is probably best.
If not, I would consider the emotional vampires book as it is very easy to read and gives a good overview. I found myself in a lot of the pages too.
Living with a parent with traits of a personality disorder (even if it's only a few traits) can make you question yourself, your own sanity. The most important thing is to truely believe you are not crazy and her behaviour as been categorically wrong at points.
From there you can try and understand and even make excuses based on generation, situation etc. but I believe without getting to that key realisation that she has been firmly in the wrong, it's impossible to move forward.
Working out the stuff with my family has been absolutely exhausting. Make sure you keep being kind to yourself as it can be incredibly draining.
Love Gem
x
Hay goodenoughmum
i think that's really helpful above ;) brilliant thanks
i can identify with three very strongly and others more subtly if you know what I mean
i will be nesting to read what iyou have all written again to take it all in thanks x
Omg what if I'm like her ? Am I going to have learned all her things :(
how do I know if I'm like that? What if my kids are learning it from me and I don't know
jeeeze this is all weird
going to bury my head in a glass of wine
( another subject but I reported something that happens to my son its minor but needed sorting and they didn't even turn up was a booked app no call or no police ) it's upset me how do they get away with that? He got shout with 3 bee bee metal bullets left marks , it happens two weeks ago and iv herd nothing I know it's minor but trust confirms my feeling of them I) sorry
so yeah how do you k ow if your ' normal'
Yes it is hard to know if you are normal!!! I agree. I guess looking at the list that Gem has provided, a good guide would be to do the opposite to those. Also, I would repeat what I said above
I know that you are a loving mother, IDT, and the messages you want to give to your children might be along the lines of "You are special. I love you, whatever. You are a worthwhile person and you deserve good things. I will always be here for you"
re the BB gun, could you report it again and put in a complaint that nothing has happened?
Hi IDT
Everything I say is all totally my own experience. I am no expert but what I have picked up is that it's totally normal to pick up the same behaviours from a dysfunctional parent.
It's also totally normal to do the opposite which can also be just as damaging (e.g. if you have an ignoring parent you might become a smothering parent.)
Because my Mum has a lot of narcissistic traits, I found the DoNM website and forum very helpful. On there they talk about how we get "fleas" when we live with someone with less than optimal personality traits.
This is where you do some of the behaviours that were done to you/you learnt as a child. Most of the time you are not consciously meaning to do this - it's the only way you know at that point.
As a child we all develop adaptive behaviours to deal with the fact that we have no control/choice and we depend on your parents for your survival. This is sometimes the reason some people who had a lonely or difficult childhood remember it as being great - it keeps the myth going and makes them feel okay about everything.
However, as adults we no longer need the various adaptive behaviours we picked up as a child and we can keep the ones we want and discard the ones we don't. Some of the things you are describing are adaptive behaviours and these are very easy to fix once you see them. Being aware of them is the first step.
If children have a parent who is abusive/has personality problems, another thing they do to cope is to believe themselves to be bad rather than their parent. They chose to believe they have control over their parents' thoughts and feelings and it's only because they are bad that their parents have to treat them badly. Their parents cant be wrong as they are perfect.
This can obviously lead to a lot of problems in adulthood if the child doesn't realise what's gone on. Things like low self-esteem obviously, but also a lot of fleas.
If you find yourself in the points above or in the pages of the Vampire book like I did don't panic. It's actually really positive that you can identify it.
We all have the capacity to have any personality trait - it's quite normal. Having traits is one end of the scale. The other hend is having a disorder when your life is destroyed by it. For example, you can't hold down a job, you lose all your friends, you have hurt all the people who love you.
In between healthy people having a couple of traits to unhealthy people with full blown personality disorder are people with personality problems. These are people who are neurotic but other people still like/put up with them to an extent or for a while. They may create elaborate lies and manipulate people to keep people close to them.
Having fleas is nothing like any of these, from what I can tell. Having fleas is a really healthy thing because it means you are taking a good long hard look at your childhood and your behaviour and deciding what you want to keep and what you want to get rid of.
I have found the key to dealing with fleas is to be open and honest about them with yourself, your friends and your children. Being honest with your children and apologising where you see you have behaved differently to how you wish to proceed, is very good.
Imagine if your Mum had been aware of her behaviour and had been trying to change it in this way, the messages you would have heard from her would have been so different even if the behaviour was often the same.
People with personality problems want you to think YOU are the problem. So you instinctively feel you are being treated badly but they say it's normal. This is crazy making to a child as they are constantly being told to ignore their gut. Therefore, your children will benefit hugely from you working on your fleas and communicating with them about it.
If it helps you can post here about your fleas. I had a lot myself. It sounds wierd but some of them I have forgotten as they are so long gone. Some of them were the other side of the coin too for example, my Mum would ignore me (for hours) when she felt her emotions rising whereas I would go after my children in anger. Neither is right or acceptable.
My Mum would ignore me for a long time then gradually I would be allowed back in. The event that had upset her would never be discussed however, I would just know I had been very bad.
In reality I now see these events were not actually bad - me embarrassing her in public by just being myself was the main one. Trying to control my behaviour by ignoring me didn't work because the behaviour was completely normal given my personality.
The better way, obviously, to deal with any behaviour we don't want to see is to talk calmly about it, punish if appropriate, but give the child a chance to apologise then forgive and move on quickly. The emphasis should be on helping the child to improve through praise and communication, not by making them feel unacceptable as a human being.
Because my Mum has no control over her emotions everything I did "wrong" was completely out of proportion to her. My eldest is very trying because of his personality so I have a direct comparison between my Mum and I.
What I have a tendency to do is to escalate situations and also give punishments that are out of proportion. This is also due to emotional immaturity on my side but it is getting better because I am working on it.
For example, when my children don't go to sleep at night I get progressively more and more angry with them. This is because I suffer from anxiety because I need my alone time. I also feel they can't love me if they won't even be quiet in their room.
Both of these are symptoms of my own neuroses. I have the anxiety because I am still struggling all the time with the ways of behaving and coping I developed in childhood and didn't change as an adult.
I feel they can't love me because I am terrified I am a bad mother and their "defiance" brings that to the fore. This is the feeling my Mum experienced I think whenever I was "naughty" in public. The fear then made her overreact too but in a different way to me.
I do try really hard to cope better with both these things. But sometimes I can only get as far as not behaving over the top. I can't quite manage the situation properly.
An example would be a couple of days ago my 5 year old got paint out of a party bag he had and painted a piece of paper upstairs in his room. Paint went on the carpet, walls and bathroom as a side effect! When I saw it I couldn't believe it as a) he knows we don't paint anywhere other than on the table with newspaper down, b) he didn't come and tell me the minute he spilt it on the carpet.
I know the proper way to deal with this is to take some time to cool off if necessary, get him to help clean it up, then give a punishment that makes sense. For example, docking pocket money to pay for carpet cleaning or not allowing him to paint until he can be more responsible.
In reality what I did was not scream and shout at him but neither did I punish him. I was too overwhelmed with everything that was going on at the time. For me, anything other than a quiet, tidy environment is very hard to deal with (because of everything I am dealing with internally) but I am unwilling to control my children into that like my Mum did with me so I have to find a different way forward.
It's a work in progress atm! And you will be able to confront any fleas you may have too.
Love Gem
x
Thanks Louise
i do try to reinforce in them what I didn't get alway saying I love them etc...but reading what you posted goodenoughmum I think there are things I can notice about myself it's not a nice feeling to admit your fleas as u call them ;(
i am feeling a bit overwhelmed by how much I have to sort out in my life;(
i know iv got over the dv now this has been bubbling to the surface and I thing jeeeze there's just so much
but onwards and upwards
i think what you posted and how far you have come goodenoughmum its really impressibe and thanks for sharing its helping me loads
i have had two great teachers my mum and Twunt ;) and understanding her behaviour helps understand how they have clouded together I was so gullible
Thanks so much goodenoughmum
The BB gun they won't come out to me but if I really needed them i think they would if It was 3 9's then they would have to they couldn't ignore that right ?
they would have no choice but to cone out
this is part of my mum again covering for him I was told by one of them that I was a p*** take
i was upset he ran out the back onto main road but I'm a p*** take
Someone said about blame and that our parents learn it From ttheir so can see things in my grandma too
hmmmm
Hi IDT, so glad to see that you have started this thread, its very interesting.
You say that you feel as though you are feeling overwhelmed at how much you have to sort out in your life. This is why we suggest parents don't even think about new relationships after the end of an old one.
Take time to learn about yourself, understand who you are, find a good counselor, it is the best present I ever gave myself! Trust me, I have been there! And you can do it, You are Doing It (
)
So...
What is your mums relationship with her mum and dad? What is your relationship with them?
Her relationship with her mum is she is very dependant on her in lots off ways I see my mum as a weak person runs away hides don't stands up for herself she relys on my gran
Gran used to put my mum down a Lot
now my gran is old mum ignores her a bit and def don't listen to her does it all her way
my gran is controlling ha ha !
They both live together in a house I co own with him and its next door to the house he lives in what we co own :-/
is there abut wonder this lovely arrangement didn't work out ?
I used to see my grandma and grandad as my parents I grew up living there and they did more than my mum
my granddad past away now and my gran don't talk to me shes not in an place to ho against them pair though I know that she's dependant on them
Yes there are some complicated family situations there, IDT. So you and your ex co-own two houses and he lives in one and your mum and gran live in the other, is that right? Have you gone to a rented house now?
Sorry...off the topic 
Yes there IS a lot to do but don't worry that you won't sort everything out overnight, it is, as GEM says, a work in progress and we learn as we go along a bit at a time but you are a very intuitive person IDT and I know that you will get there (and a counsellor could help along the way, maybe when you are a bit further down the line?)
Things I just don't like that's de me feel sad now and past
Are she lies and used to tell me to hide things " don't tell x that"
She has to be centre we have to go through her we can not go to each other
She enjoys it when I am going though a bad time
She never once stood up for me ever
She never told me or explained anything about life about people I got" if you need to know anything about your dad just ask" I was to bloody scared to upset her.
No ones perfect and I'm sure our parents had reasons for doing things but I feel if its effected how YOU feel then its important x