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Hi,
I wasn't really sure which topic to write this in but here goes.
I have been divorced for nearly 3 years now. When we split we went to mediation to sort out our finances and the arrangements for the children. We did it this way because my ex is quite manipulative and I felt we needed a third party to keep things fair for both of us. The arrangements made were the children would live with me and he would have them every other weekend (Fri after school until Sunday afternoon) and one evening in the week. Sadly this has never happened. He has had various different excuses over the years, from inappropriate living arrangements to having no money. There was a period of time when we had an arrangement we stuck to which I really liked as it meant I could plan and have a bit of a social life and the girls liked it because they could look at the calender and know when they were going to see their dad. Anyway that stopped as he lost the job that dictacted that structure and things have slowly deteriorated ever since.
The situation now is he lets me know about 2 days beforehand that he wants to have the children. He wont give me the timings until the last minute. I will share this weekend as an example. He text me yesterday to say he wants to have the girls overnight this saturday. He has given me a vague idea of what time he is picking them up but wants to confirm it on sat lunchtime! He won't tell me when he is bringing them back on sunday until he picks them up on saturday! This means that I can't make any plans until the last minute which I find very restrictive. If I try to pin him down he always asks why I want to know, what am I doing? If I wont tell him he wont be co-operative, if I tell him I want to go out and give him the timings he can never quite meet my needs so I have to change my arrangements to fit in with him.
I feel that this is his way of controlling what I do in my own time, looking back it seems to have started when I began dating someone last year.
The longer this goes on the more anxious I am becoming. All the feelings I had when we were married are starting to come back.
I don't know what to do about it. When I am feeling angry I just want to tell him its not convenient and not let him see the gilrs but I know thats not fair on the children.
Thanks for your response Sergiozed,
The girls look forward to and enjoy their time with their Dad and would like to see him more often. I have tried to talk to my ex, saying that the girls would like to see him more regularly and how routine is best for them, he just says "Yes I agree" but then has an excuse as to why it cant be done at the moment.
I'm not sure that mediation would make a difference, last time he was very amicable/reasonable about what his responsibilities are but then did nothing to make sure he stood by them. I can't see it would be any different. And he would expect me to pay!
As for this Saturday I have been invited to a party but its not near by so I will be staying the night. If I tell him I'm staying out the night he's likely to be difficult, but I want to make my plans today and if I start asking him questions he'll want to know why I'm asking and then be difficult!
Sometimes I wish I could call on an advocate who would tell him how unreasonable he's being 
I think you need to see this weekend through, you NEED to go to that party! Play it safe today, but maybe you could keep chiseling at the issue and try to bring out his ‘reasonable’ side. If the girls get on with him he must be putting some effort into it? Is this something worth thinking about?
Sorry I am not an advocate
Hi pancakequeen, you say that you are feeling controlled by your ex, well now is time to take some of that control back.
If he wasn't going to have the girls overnight, could they come with you to the party or would they go to your parents?
Either way YOU ARE going to this party, so you can tell him and let him know what time the girls need picking up by and dropping off and if he is unable to accommodate that then you tell him straight that they will be staying with your parents because those are your plans and he will have to wait till next weekend.
It isn't you obstructing contact, it is you having a bit of a life. It is not as though you are doing this on a regular basis. It sounds as though you have been very accommodating in the past.
Remember people can only control us if we let them. 
You shall go to the ball, I'll be thinking of you
Thanks Anna
Sadly the threats have started. I told him I was going to be home by 1pm on Sunday so he's returned saying if I'm not home by 11.45 he wont have them!
Unfortunately I don't have anyone else to have them. My Parents are a 3 hour round trip away which is too much for such a short amount of time. The 2 other people I would normally go to aren't available so I'm not sure what to do now. I could take the girls with me but its not really that kind of party, there won't be any other children there and we wouldn't be able to stay the night.
I feel I have to give in, again, as its the girls that will miss out if I don't. Its just so unfair 
Sorry this has been happening, PQ. You're right, it is all about control.
On a practical basis, surely you could be back by 11.45 on Sunday just this time? (annoying though it may be to be dictated to)
For the immediate future, you need a helpful neighbour or two, who would be there in case he tries to drop the girls off early, and give them a key. You can then be much more casual and say things like "11.45? Oh well I should be back by then but if not, Mavis will be here"
When he asks you what you are doing, you could have a little fund of ridiculous things, such as afternoon tea with the Dalai Lama, a hot air balloon ride with Richard Branson or a business seminar with Stephen Hawking that you are attending. In fact if you have a sleepless night sometime, that would pass the time, making alist of things you could be doing. If it IS all about control then this in another way to seize it back.
The final suggestion I have is that if you are available in future to have the girls back at 1pm, say, then tell him you are available at 3pm. Then when he tries to claw back a couple of hours it hasn't inconvenienced you much. HA!
Thanks Louise. You're right I can be back by 11.45 it's just I know equally he could keep them until 1. I've told him I'll change my arrangements but only if we change the way we plan him having the girls. He came back with a load of comments about how awful I am at various things but I just stuck to the point and said that things would different from now on. hes also said he will need a running report on what the girls are doing! Is that reasonable?
Oh and I will be going to the party :-)
Well done for being assertive, and also I notice you have used the technique that we have found effective with all our teenagers...don't let them distract you from the matter in hand with various emotional "hooks". What does he mean about a running report, I wonder? I guess he could chat to the girls on his time with them or even phone them in between but a written report from you is ridiculous. Will he be providing a written account of every moment they spend with him, then?
Thanks Louise, I feel much better now.
He has asked for a running report before. From what I remember he wants me to email him weekly with all their activities and what they'll be doing in the holidays and who with. The last time he asked I told him to go on the school website and to speak to the children himself. They both have mobiles so he doesn't need to do all this through me anymore. He seems to want to keep tabs on me and my activities.
Deep breath for when he comes round later to pick the girls up.
I've also taken your advice and asked my neighbour to be on standby should he bring them back early or I'm late. I've told A to go there if I'm not home.
That sounds great, PQ, yes DEEP breaths and stay calm (just like with a teen)
And most importantly of all, enjoy the party!!
Good morning pq. How was your weekend? How was the party? How was your ex?
It sounds as though Louise got your feet back on the ground and you felt much more in control again.
I look forward to hearing how it all went.
Hi Anna,
The weekend was fine. I went to the party and had a good time.
My ex ignored me! But at least that meant he wasn't rude!!
The next hurdle will be when he wants to make the next arrangement, I'll wait for him to contact me and take it from there.
Thankyou for the support, I felt quite panicky on Friday, I would probably have canceled my arrangements if I hadn't had you all to help me 
Hi PQ, glad you had a good weekend and your ex didn't end up spoiling things for you. What time did he end up bringing the girls home?
Hi Sally,
He brought them home at 11.40! Part of me wanted to hide round the corner until 11.45 so I wouldn't be there....teehee.
He's now cancelled his time with the girls for today and hasn't made anymore arrangements to see them. We'll see how it goes.
Hey pq, so glad you went to the party and had a good time, really glad we were here for you.
Do you think your ex is deliberately playing difficult now if he is cancelling his time with the girls today and not making further arrangements? How are the girls about this?
Hi Anna,
I would say its highly likely that he is being difficult but its hard to know for sure. He rarely commuicates with me and when he does I can never be sure he's telling me the truth. When he cancelled yesterday I asked him to tell the gilrs himself as I wanted him to see how it affects them. They were both very disappointed but they have become resigned to the fact that he's not very reliable. He's told them he hopes to see them at the weekend, but he hasn't spoken to me about it, we are busy on saturday and sunday so I'm not sure how that will work.
Hi pq, I am glad that you are finding it easier to put your boundaries in place. Do the girls know that they are busy on Saturday and Sunday? What are you up to at the weekend? 
Does their dad communicate with them via their mobiles or is it always through you?
My ex used to do this. His game too included cancelling stuff, often at the last second, if he found out I had plans.
Contact was always on his terms, even though every other weekend had been agreed.
My brother-in-law put together a new agreement in which The Git would give 24 hours notice of when he wanted to see the children, but had to accept it if I said no.
If I was going out - which until recently was an extremely rare event - I always had a Plan B. Once the older two were 16 and 14 things changed as i was able to go out.
Even when the children were old enough to leave though, if I did have plans they stayed at home, or The Git would have mucked me about with what time he would bring them home - as yours is doing now.
While I know that it was the children who were missing out in not seeing their father if I did say no, I had no guilt as he was the one who chose not to stick to the orginal plan that HE had put in place, which had been every other weekend and one evening a week.
My children were sat down and I explained why this plan was put in place. I like to think I never blamed or put The Git down with the talks we had.
The Git only sees them a couple of times a year now, and it always seems to cost me a fortune when he does give them some time as I have to fund the trip (they have to drive to wherever he wants to meet up - I put fuel in the car) and make sure they have money for food, as he doesn't always pay.
By having that agreement in place, in a way it gave me the control to say no - which I only ever said once. Having that control made me feel so much better.
I'm sorry he's such a plonker pq...
I suppose it's a "wait and see" if he does want to see the girls at the weekend and if that fits your plans, do you think getting a new contact arrangement would work?
Thanks sparkling, it is so hard when the other parent doesn't want to co-operate. Sally I don't think a new contact arrangement will make much difference, unless its similar to the one sparkling talks about above, as he will always do what he wants in the end regardless of the boundaries.
He's asked to see the girls next wednesday which will be really inconvenient for me as A has activites to go to and I'm going out. I was tempted to say no, but I have said yes and told him about all the things he will need to do and hope that puts him off. If he agrees I'll put a plan B in place just in case.
Anna the girls know what we are doing this weekend, although they have probably forgotten by now!! I'm going out saturday afternoon so they will be staying with their grandma for a couple of hours and on sunday a friend is coming over with her little boy. My ex rarely contacts the girls himself, he responds if they text him but he doesn't initiate texting with them. He does all the arrangements and finding out about their activities through me. I have begun to redirect him to them if I can.
How would you feel if all communication was through the girls? It sounds as though you would be pretty happy with that? Do you think it would be too much of a strain on them or could they handle it?
It does sound frustrating that he wants to just pick and choose when he sees them, but it is good that he wants to be in their lives and that they have him. It will be interesting to see how Wednesday goes with him coping with all the instructions!
Always good to have a plan B!
What are you up to on Saturday afternoon?
Hi Anna, I think its a good suggestion and I will definitely give it some thought. I'm not sure the girls would want to do it, especially A who desparately wants her parents to get on like 'normal' parents.
I really do want the girls to have a relationship with their Dad, especially as they so desparately want to spend time with him, but I can't cope with the current arrangement.
On satrurday I've got a date . Its someone I met for a drink a little while ago, we seem to hit it off so we're going out for a walk together and maybe a bite to eat. I'm really looking forward to it which is why I've arranged for the girls to go to their grandma's, I don't want a certain someone to put a spanner in the works!!
Hey! A date! Exciting, sorry to sound like a school girl, but it always is a little bit thrilling!!
I guess at the moment you have to keep playing it by ear, however if you feel that the girls could take a bit more of the responsibility, then slowly but surely you can manoeuvre it that way perhaps.
Have a super weekend, I look forward to hearing how it goes. Good luck :)
Hi PQ, hope you have a good time on your date 
I was thinking that it's quite a difficult one about liasing through the girls if they don't always know what's going on so one way to tackle that could be a monthly wallchart thing where you write in what is happening (in pencil so it can be changed) This would help not only in him seeing that there are arrangements but also they can check to see what's going on not only for him but their own plans. I keep an A5 diary here and put everything in it, from work things to family appointments and arrangements, from birthdays to helpful numbers for optician, dentist etc. but as your girls are younger, a wallchart might work better.
I hope you have a lovely evening pq
Morning louise, I have a calender on the fridge with all the activities on for the month. The girls often look at it. They used to like it when they had regular contact with their dad as they could see when their next visit with him would be.
My ex rang this week about the wednesday arrangements, complianing again that he didn't know about the childrens activities. I suggested that if he kept in contact with them via their phones he could keep abreast of what they were doing, his response was that I had no right to put this back on him to do! I think that was a no then!
He text last night saying he wants to cancel wednesday and have them tonight instead. As I have plans today and the girls will be at their grandmas (his mum) i said he would have to pick them up from her house. He's now trying to make me change my plans as he doesn't want to drive over to his mums house to get them. Its relentless.
What a surprise... I am sorry pq
Thanks sparkling X
Stick to your guns, PQ, it's one thing being flexible and quite another letting him mess you all about. Whilst it's lovely for the girls to see him, it feels to me as if he needs to understand that if he keeps changing things every five minutes then he loses out. It's very wearing for you.
Thanks louise, I have. I carried on with my plans and he had to fit in with me, which he did and he's just picked them up. Now I have an unexpected night to myself and nothing to do. I've text a few friends but no one is free. TV it is then.
My date went well. We get on really well. Our free time is limited so I think it will be slow progress but thats fine with me.
Glad your date went well 
I guess the first few times you stick to your guns you may well be left at a bit of a loose end, don't let that put you off, it is all about establishing a better pattern with the girls' dad before you can neccesarily rely on it. The girls will be happier too, when they know what to expect.
Thanks louise. I feel better in myself now. I think I need to remember that I will never be able to rely on him, I seem to feel worse when I think we have made a break through and then he lets us down again. Its like I'm surprised by the outcome, but really I should know what he's like. It just makes me feel sad as I look at some of my friends and they seem to have stable arrangements with their ex's and I wonder why my situation is so hard.
Yes, I understand that disappointment. Thinking about the people who use these boards, there are a number of us who feel let down by our children's parent, and certainly that the other parent is letting down their children. The sad fact is that we can only do what we can do. The good news is that your girls are getting older now and you won't always have to rely on him, but in the short term you are doing a great job of setting new boundaries (have you noticed, by the way, that so many aspects of life involve boundaries whether it is exes, children, work, friends, parents....it's definitely worth us working on this skill )
Well the battle continues....
I decided to try and include my ex in the half term plans and asked him weeks ago if he would be able to have the girls, he wouldn't commit at the time and said he would get back to me.....well he got back to me yesterday! Unfortunately the 2 dates he has given me aren't good as I have already made plans. He is now complaining and saying that its my fault he can't see the children as I can't communicate properly!
Part of me wants to make a stand and the other part wants to make sure the girls get to see their dad. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I made the decision yesterday to say no but now feel guilty and am wondering whether I should change my mind?
No PQ, as he has been playing this game as forever with you, you are the one always reasonable and trying so hard, he torpedo's it, blames you and you feel guilty again and that is what he is aiming for since donkey's years.
I suggest that if dates are important, you do your requests in writing so no one can tell you it is your communicating. You could do this writing by email or text ? Then if he still plays these games you can just show the texts or refer to them or forward them. Your communication on here is always so very clear and so very supportive. It is not you.
Don't doubt your self because he is playing those mind games again. I am proud that you were able to take the control back and set dates. Well done you !! (((big hug)))
Thanks skyflower.
My confidence is at a bit of a low at the moment and having to deal with him doesn't help.
I do all of my communicating via text or email as I find it easier and I have a record too of everything I have said. I've given up pointing things out to him as I don't think he is interested in making the situation better.
Then let it go PQ you are not responsible for his actions and you cant make it better for your children, I am sorry you have to deal with this all the time
((((hug))))
I agree with Skyflower, and I was thinking that when you communicate with him, if he will not commit, you could say "well I will give you until date x after which we will arrange things and you will have to take pot luck as to whether the girls are free"
It's understandable that this has knocked your confidence but hold your head high, you are being as fair as you can and it is only when you stay strong (however you may secretly be feeling inside) that he will learn a new type of behaviour. It's a bit like when the girls were younger and you set boundaries...if they disrespected them and you just gave in, they would never have learned to repect those boundaries in future. You know full well he tries to play games with you so that you can't arrange things. Time to take control back now!!!
Thank you both.
I haven't changed my mind and he hasn't been in contact again. I have explained to the girls that I have said no to him and why and they seem ok with that.
Being strong and in control......(if I say it often enough I hope I will start to believe it)
Hey pq, it is hard isn't it, you are really trying and not getting very much in return. My mantra "I love and approve of myself" worked wonders for me (and still does I might add!) repeat it to yourself over and over again (it is recommended 400 - 500 times a day for a couple of days) You could also repeat "I am strong and in control of my life" in the same way. It really does help to make you feel different.
It sounds like the girls respect your decisions, so you can take their lead and know that you are doing the best for them.
I think it is hard to make plans for weeks/months ahead, I find it hard anyway, so I like Louise's idea of giving him a date to let you know his movements, this definately will at least get him thinking about it.
What are you up to this bank holiday? Have you seen your "date"?
Thanks Anna,
400-500 times a day? Sounds like a lot but I'll give it a go.
I think you're right about taking my lead from the girls.
He knows how to push my buttons and it frustrates me enormously that he can still affect me like this, but I suppose the key, like louise said, is to remain outwardly strong no matter how I feel inside.
The bank holiday has been quiet, its a 5 week month so I'm a bit strapped financially, spent most of the time indoors.
The date thing has ended, he got cold feet and broke contact with me all of a sudden, its a bit of a shame as I thought we had a good connection....
Hi pq, I know what you mean about 400-500 times a day, but trust me, it works wonders! Just repeat repeat repeat and as soon as you forget to do it, repeat repeat repeat!
Once you start believing that you are in control (which the above exercise will help) I don't think he will affect you in quite the same way, you will beccome less patient with his actions and will find that you manage it assertively.
So glad you brought up that it is a 5 week month, I had been wondering why my bank account is near empty. Roll on next week!
'Date guy' just stopped all contact? A shame if you thought things were going well, but His Loss! You are lovely from what I have gathered from talking to you on here, so I hope that you don't let it affect your confidence, he doesn't deserve that and nor do you
Hi Anna,
'date guy' said goodbye first by text! but nothing since. I'm ok about it now, I was a bit fed up at the time, but only for a day or so.
Here goes with the chanting......
Hi pancakequeen.
Sorry if I missed some of the converstaion and repeat anything others have said. Dyslexia has a lot to answer for :)
Is it worth you going to court and getting a contact order drawn up, where it is full residency to you and contact to thier father. This way it is written up when he should have them and if he doesn't it is his loss. Now that doesn't help if you have made plans and he cancels, but it can give you more of a feeling that you are in control.
As long as you offer then he can jump up and down all he likes. The same as he can say I want them now and if it doesn't suit you then you can say sorry I have plans for them that time, perhapes you would like them on x?
It helps you plan your life rather than feeling that you have to try and involve him and wait for his permision.
Hi Suneagle, thankyou for your thoughts.
We already have an arangement that was made through the court at the time of the divorce. It states he will have them every other weekend friday to sunday and one evening a week. Sadly he has never kept to this arrangement.
I just need to stick to my guns and not give in whenever he clicks his fingers.
Glad the others were able to support you over your wobble PQ, it is so easy to get pulled into their shananigans. Sorry things did not work out with the date guy.
Thanks Sally, as usual the lovely one spacers came to my rescue
Pancakequeen
Sticking to your guns is hard, it helps me to think of stroppy teenager/child who has just been told they can't have something or have to do something like clean thier room.
Sorry your date didn't work out well. Someone said to me once you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince.
Thanks Suneagle,
I think you're right about the stroppy teenager. I have one of those at home so it shouldn't be too difficult
I understand how difficult it is to say no, but it's good that you did. When my brother-in-law drew up the new 'agreement' about contact I showed it to my older two, who were 15 and 13 at the time. They read it, chatted about it and then told their father that they wanted to go with it. I felt that including them removed the conflict...
I'm sorry about the 'date'...
That’s a tough situation, pancakequeen, and as you say, you don’t want to end up with the girls being the ones who suffer. He's obviously using this situation to manipulate (punish?) you, and interesting that it all started up again when you started dating. Clearly this is all about him controlling you, and he is not afraid to use the girls to get to you.
Are the girls getting on well with him? Do they have a good time when they spend time with him? Can you talk to him about it? Sounds as if he is at least trying to keep his relationship with the girls going, do you think he may respond if you put it to him that he needs to allow a routine to build again with the weekend visits? I think you are right that you can’t just tell him the truth about the arrangements being inconvenient, but at the same time his attitude of ‘turn up and drop off when it suits me’ is not acceptable to anyone.
Mediation worked last time; do you think he might respond to a formal mediation session?