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Hi Guys,
Still on that dreaded statement 
I am trying to write why the telephone contact was no good for angel and cant get the words to actually describe what I mean, so was wondering if I say summary of what my ex is like on the phone with angel you could maybe suggest words I could use to describe it...? And also tell me if you even think there is anything wrong in it...?
Ok so ex would always insist that after every answer angel gave him she said 'daddy' at the end of the sentence (i.e. "yes daddy" "thanks you daddy") it was very clear to me she was uncomfortable relating to him like this and if she didnt say daddy he would make her repeat the whole sentence and then give her the following lecture... "you need to remember I am your daddy, I am the ONLY daddy you will ever have, nobody can replace me - I made you, me and your mum NO ONE else, never forget that you came from me, you are part of me!"
Then about every 30 seconds she would get this " you know I love you dont you? You do know it? Tell me you know it? Your are my everything, One day we will be back together, you NEED to always know that I love you MORE than anyone else ever can and I will do anything for you. Do you know know that angel? (to which she would have to say 'yes daddy' - and I am not joking about every 30 seconds)
Is this weird?
Thanks for replying Hopeful x
What I want really is words to describe the behaviour as apposed to descrining the actual think if you know what I mean?! I am doing Bullet points for all my concerns about him and want it short & sweet and then when I am cross examined in court I will give examples in detail.
I was thinking saying he is too 'intense'..? Or do you think it is manipulative..? I dont know how to sum it up...?
Hi littleangel - weird? Yes! Uncommon? I don't know. My ex was/is exactly the same. My daughter recieved a book through the post the other day from her father (he has made no contact for about 8 months (last contact he had was sending her his brothers statement about me from 8 years ago - not cool and very upsetting).
This recent book had no accompanying letter. It is called Daddy's Girl and it is about a girl who is abused by her step father. - Great huh!
What I am trying to say is I recognise your ex's behaviour and my daughter is 18 in a couple of months - he is bizarre and he has never completely 'gone away'
Anyway, back to your wording.
I think what you have written is fine, perhaps a statement at the beginning of each example:
He put words in her mouth and was insistent that she spoke to him in particular manner.
You could say that your daughter has always known that he is her father. However when on the phone he was insistent that she finished every sentence with 'Daddy' and when she errred she was expected to repeat herself. This happened on XXXX times during a phonecall. She would tell you/or her body language showed that she was uncomfortable about this.
He was forceful.
You have never bad mouthed her father to your daughter and she hears him say that he loves her, but is uncomfortable with having to repeatedly acknowledge this fact. Then add your example above (last paragraph)
Would the converation be all about him, or would he ask her what her interests were or what she had been up to? Did he make her laugh? Did she ask to speak to her father, when he wasn't in contact?
You could mention the time when she was giving you signals to help her get off the phone and he told her to go into the other room so you wouldn't interfere.
You said in your 2nd paragraph that he 'gave her the following lecture' try and re phrase that, so that you are sounding impartial ie: and then he would insist ......
Is this any help?
I think inappropriate and manipulative fits the bill.
Does the 'other side' get to see your statement before the hearing? If not, put the whole lot in, if yes, don't. :-)
You're doing fine with your words, don't worry. x
Thanks guys I just want to make sure that what I am saying doesnt sound like I am making something out of nothing or nit-picking because I got a feeling they gonna try and fight to keep the phone contact and i want it to look like i have genuine concerns and am not just being awkward.
OMG Anna! I hope my ex is still messing about when angel is older, that book was so out of order and sounds just like something my ex would do. He already accuses my boyf of being a paedophile! Angel hates speaking with her dad and is so glad it has been stopped but she is too scared for me to say that in front of her dad as he WILL confront her on it if he ever sees her so I am going to try and avoid making angels views heard as cafcass has said her views are irrelevant given the risk he poses. She did have some friendly conversations with him and she seems to laught AT him rather than with him as he would sing love songs down the phone to her (??!!) and he would always ask what she had been up to and stuff(as well as what was mummy doing!)
Hopeful, unfortunately I have to submit my statement to the ex so that he can produce a response to it which is why I am trying to be as partial as I can what I would really like to say is $%£&^**^$$%!!!!! lol
I don't think i can really add much to the advice you've got already but just wanted to say "eeeewww" - that made my skin crawl! How old is she?
Anna - maybe he didn't read the book, just saw the title and thought it was a good idea. Am also disheartened to hear that he's been here and there for all that time - i suspect my ex will be like that.
Good luck with the rest of the statement LA. xxxxx
Hello little angel., you have been given so much good input here there is little I can add except perhaps to suggest a format, such as behaviour......consequence. What I mean by that is that each point could have those elements. Here is an example:
He insists that every remark she makes includes the word "daddy" (behaviour). This makes her anxious and she trips over her words and is frightened of what he will do if she makes a mistake (consequence)...or
He tells her repeatedly that he is the only daddy she will ever have and she belongs to him, in an aggressive way (behaviour) This makes her feel scared and uneasy and she does not sleep well on the nights he has phoned (consequence)
Ok I am not saying these things are actually as it is, I was just trying to illustrate what behaviour.....consequence might look like. And by the way, although I absolutely know where you are coming from with the not wanting to "drop her in it" with him, the only consequences you CAN highlight are ones for her, as the court is not concerned with your view of the calls, only how they affect angel.
Thanks EmmaJ angel is 8, exactly how he speaks to her is how he would speak to me when we were together but I was in my 20's not an anxious 8 year old - poor thing!
Louise that format is a good idea I will use that. My statement is 6 pages long at present so I need to cut it down so that will help. I have only included things that affect angel but I have described the affect it has on her from my observation point of view rather than from the actual words out of her mouth (e.g. I have said angel will appear anxious and frightened after a call from her dad rather than saying angel says her dad frightens her and makes her feel anxious, - it might sound strange that I am not quoting her words and I have been told I should but I really do know what he is like and she is terrified of him and I am not willing to put her through it).
What a hard situation, I can see why you have been asked to do it in your daughters words and why you dont want to but perhaps if you say she is scared rather than appears as your ex could just say that your opinion or if you do use your daughters words assure her that she doesnt have to see her father or speak to him if she doesnt want to and make sure she feels protected! Very hard situation good luck x
Hi littleangel, I wonder if you could mention in the statement that you have not used angels words verbatim because she is terrified of being questioned about it. However you can provide that if necessary.
Hi EmmaJ, I too thought and hope that my ex hadn't read the book and just saw the title, however that just irritates as well. Why send something that he hasn't researched, he is an intelligent man (!!!) and why not just put a letter in the post instead, or as well as - there was nothing.
Wishing you luck littleangel and keep using us as a sounding board.
Thanks Anna, I am really uncomfortable with saying anything about angel as I have to give my statement his solicitor for him to read. I know it sounds a bit dramatic of me but my ex CANNOT handle rejection and the fact she is only 8 wont trigger in his brain. I strongly believe he is mentally ill (he often says I am possessed/working with the devil) and if he got them thoughts about angel I am scared of what he would do. I feel I never properly protected her when I was with him but I will do anything to protect her now.
Hiya.. just my twopennies worth, but maybe using the word 'manipulative' may come across as your 'opinion' rather than actuality? Someone said 'forceful' << that's a better word to use and also he is 'giving direction' on what to say in reply to him as opposed to leaving her speak her own thoughts for herself. Not had chance to read every word in this thread, so hope I haven't wasted space and repeated someone else. What a selfish man to do such a thing to an 8yr old. I have no idea re his mental state, but perhaps he is just simply a man who needs to 'control' everything? Best wishes Xx
Good point Morrigan, thank you.
littleangel, I understand that you feel that you haven't protected littleangel in the past, but you are now. You know what you need to do best.
Thanks guys, Not been on for a couple of days as it all got a bit much. It really has dragged on for too long this whole thing - I left him 2006 for gods sake! saw my GP today and she was outraged that I have to testify based on all the reports about his risk. She is going to write me a report to illustrate the detrimental effect this has had on me in the hope that this next hearing will be the last because I really dont think I can take any more and just want a decision now before I crack up. On the plus side I now have some anxiety meds so I can sleep and function a bit better and also some blood pressure meds to keep it under control as it is all making me ill.
Statement still not finished but (needed submitting today)I havent received any instruction on where I am sending it or anything anyway because I had to leave the hearing when I got upset and they said they would send me all the details and instructions but they havent so they cant fault me for being late, or at least I hope not.
Hi littleangel, it is ridiculous how this is being dragged on and I am wondering if it is possible for it to be said in the Courts? How this man has been abusive and is a bully and how the Court has managed to let him continue with it under their roof?
Why not ring the courts and get some instruction on what you need to do with your statement. Be proactive, you don't want anything going against you right now. Lets get this dealt with once and for all.
Anna, not sure I could criticise the court incase it goes against me - I am a big baby lol i will do AFTER the decision is made but not before just in case. I do think my doctor is going to say something though she was pretty annoyed about it on my behalf.
I spoke to Cafcass earlier and the officer himself is pretty unhappy he is being dragged in to testify also lol I think the only person who will actually be glad to be there is my ex. My ex has made some ridiculous claims about the cafcass officer - calling him racist for siding with me, but I am the same race as ex lol he has also implied cafcass has an attraction to me... the whole hearing will be a pointles waste of everyones time.
Cor, they really know how to pull them out of the bag don't they!! I know it is hard to feel jovial right now, but your ex's accusations are just downright ridiculous. I find it extremely annoying that the Court is entertaining them.
It sounds as though everyone who is being dragged through this can see how stupid this whole fiasco has become.
I understand you not wanting to bring up how the courts have aided your ex to continue to manipulate and bully you. However it would be great if you felt able to afterwards. I really think Judges need to learn more about the characteristics of abusive men and see through their games.
Did you find out what you needed to do with the statement?
Hi Anna, I think that as I amobviously not legally savvy in anyway that is why the courts are going ahead with the hearing because had I have had a solicitor or even had the courage to challenge it in court I dont think the magistrates would have granted the hearing because they did seem reluctant and they asked me if I had anything to say but no words came out. never mind.
I rang court today and they said the order was only drafted yesterday and I should receive tomorrow. A bit strange as I was told to submit by 3rd sept but I am gonna wait for the order and see what sepcifically it is asking me to do and then take it from there because most of what was said in court feels like a blur to me now.
Aww bad luck littleangel. I am glad that you phoned them and hopefully once the letter comes through it will make things a little clearer.
When are you due to meet with the WA worker?
HiAnna, received theorder today it just states that I have to "state my position on contact in writing" which seems a lot simpler than what I have done.Anyway i have finished it and will be sending it tomorrow. The deadline says 3rd sept but I only received order today so I will challenge that if need be.
I am meeting WA worker next friday and she is coming court with me.
Don't you just love it when you receive mail from a government office or similar - in your case, littleangel, the court - and it gives you a deadline for action which is before the date you receive it?!
It sounds like you are doing all you can to give them as much information about where you see the difficulties with contact between angel and her dad.
Glad to hear you the WA worker is going into court with you.
Mary
Hi littleangel, well done for finishing the statement! Hooray! Does this mean you can have a gentle weekend?
Hi littleangel,
I don't think your wording is bad. You can say:
One of the reasons why I found the telephone contact inappropriate was that X would insist on little angel answering every question or statement made by X ending in "Daddy", for example "Yes, Daddy. Thank you, Daddy." If she did not do this, X would make her repeat it 'correctly' and give her the following lecture..... (Add all your bit). It was very clear to me that little angel was uncomfortable relating to him in this manner.
Furthermore, he would repeat the following very frequently: (put your bit in again) to which she was supposed to reply "Yes, Daddy." each time. This would happen at least 30 times during the telephone conversation.
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Hope this helps! :-) (and for the record: he sounds seriously insecure. What a yucky thing for little angel to deal with!)