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Probably this will end up being seen as quite a biased post.
I do hope that those of you who know me will know that I do my utmost to be unbiased as possible. To me the parent with care can either be mother or father, as we do see on this wonderful board.
I also like to start a discussion every now and then.
I do hope that Sadsy will see this too, as part of his post is what has prompted this.
I do post and have read on other boards for lone-parents. I became a lone-parent back in 2004. The Git, as I so un-fondly call him, was in a really well paid job at the time, assured me that he would buy shoes and coats and would always go halfs with gifts, so we could still say that they were from Mummy and Daddy.
My eldest was the first to have a birthday, and despite the fact that The Git was earning £2k a month (take home), he pleaded poverty and refused to help with the gift. Our son was 13, and we had promised him a decent bicycle.
My son got the bike. My friends - who I work for and moan a lot about - helped me out with buying it. I was told to make it very plain that I had bought the bicycle.
I did. I also texted The Git to say that it was clear that we had a differnce of opinion on the sharing of gifts, and to choose our own presents. Of course, that meant that the children weren't going to have the more expensive gifts that they saw their friends having. I've always done my best though.
What so upsets me is how non-resident parents can be seen to ensure they pay the minimum that they can get away with when it comes to maintenance. In my case, I was married for 19 years and 6 months - the divorce came through on my 20th anniversary (yeah! Can still celebrate!). I also worked for most of my married life - full time, and for over two years, I worked nights.
The Git knows full well that my priority has always been family. That did, when we were married, include him. Rarely do I spend money on me. The jogging trousers I'm wearing are 8 years old. I don't have the funds to sort me out.
To see non-resident parents refuse to give money to the parent with care as it funds their lifestyle is, in the vast, vast majority of situations a load of rubbish. Parents with care are just that. Caring for children. Not many actually have a life style. Not many have a life.
I've not had trips away. We've not even had a day out these holidays. I don't have the money to take my children out. I've had to budget for the extra food they eat, and in my daughter's case, her school uniform. I'm running about with my eldest, taking him to work, taking him for college interviews.
All of this should be shared by both parents.
I have a grant for two of my children for uniform. There was no grant for them in primary school, and no grant for them in sixth form.
I think people are under the impression that those on benefits don't have to pay for a thing.
It is just one incredible struggle.
And it is right that a parent should be able to choose to stay home and raise their child/ren.
Both parents need to appreciate that children are very expensive. They are not commodities. Their live can be difficult with their peers, when those from lone-parent families are excluded from things because of cost.
Is it so wrong that the non-resident parent shouldn't pay for these things? Why should a child be listened to when a parent with care isn't? How dare any parent put such pressure on a child in the first instant. They struggle as it is with parent living apart, never mind having to be a go-between.
How I would have loved The Git to have offered to help with things. He did once - he paid for one of our children to go to summer camp. At £230 each, it was expensive, and with fiance II he actually offered and happily paid.
I was grateful. It saved scrimping on something else.
So perhaps both parents should stop and think. Think of the child/ren and what they need, and stop thinking the worst of the 'other' parent.
None of this is fair.
None of it is right.
*Is it so wrong that the non-resident parent shouldn't pay for these things? Why should a child be listened to when a parent with care isn't? How dare any parent put such pressure on a child in the first instant. They struggle as it is with parent living apart, never mind having to be a go-between.*
A non-resident parent should pay for such things. In my case, when i dared to ask for maintenance, I was told to more or less stick it. When C dared to ask for a measly £10, he was told, 'I don't have that money, ask your Mother'. C asked off his own back, and in my eyes, he shouldn't have had too, after years of nothing, the sperm doner should have given it!!!! Showed his true colours up to C though, he knows he is a worthless piece of s****.
*How I would have loved The Git to have offered to help with things. He did once - he paid for one of our children to go to summer camp. At £230 each, it was expensive, and with fiance II he actually offered and happily paid.*
These things should come automatically in my view. A Dad should know what their children are involved in, and then they should pay toward whatever needs paying. In my case, the sperm doner has no idea what C does or doesn't do. I did at one point tell him that C was doing gymnastics but I was struggling to pay for it. Did he offer to help??? Not on your nelly. There was total silence. Say no more.
*I think people are under the impression that those on benefits don't have to pay for a thing.*
I b**** wish
*And it is right that a parent should be able to choose to stay home and raise their child/ren.*
I totally agree with this. I'm hoping that perhaps organisations such as Span etc will work harder toward this.
What a great thread!
You both have put over your points in a very articulate way.
I am with you, all the way. But I am also going to put over other situations I have seen. Firstly, we see what sadsy has been through. He sees his ex buying a £700 fish tank and yet his children need new shoes, which he then buys for them. Secondly some friends of mine. Parents split up and there were two children of the four left at home. Child support paid regularly at the "going rate" even though that left friend (dad) very short of money and on a few occasions, with nothing to eat for two days at a time. Birthdays and Christmas always remembered and money given. Children seen every week, phone calls and texts in between and quality time spent. Dad meets new partner and they move in together. Partner (who works) loses all of her Working Tax Credit and Council Tax Benefit. Both of them get a second job in the evening to continue paying the right amount of child support....and happy to do so except that the original Mum has two holidays abroad a year (including a month in Australia) and drives a luxury vehicle.
What I am saying is that there are totally and utterly unfair and nonsensical situations whatever side you look at it from. I would add that I get £10 a week child support, despite discovering by chance that my boys' dad had thousands stashed away in a secret bank account.
The other point that comes to mind is that I know loads of people where the parent without day to day care is really well-off, owns properties and yet "arranges" their finances so that the CSA makes a really low assessment or does not even bother to pursue them at all. Why not? Employed and self employed people both have tax records and there is no reason why these should not be examined and used as the basis for assessments, and there should be a better system in place to pursue them.
Finally, how can a parent love their child so little that they can not care whether they are living in poverty? 
This is a very good thread.
It is a very painful area for me. I get no info as to whether the children are well cared for or not. I just don't know. Considering that ex has just been to the Caribbean for 10 days I am not that trusting. I just don't trust her and her druggy husband.
If my son says his feet are uncomfortable in his shoes, I go straight out at next contact and replace them. Whether I can afford to or not.
There is no spare money. Ex is about to put me into £35k of unnecessary debt and bankruptcy by forcing sale of my home. She never paid a penny to mortgage or £20k deposit loan I took out despite her working. I have another 8 years of paying it whether I have a house or not.
I have an enormous hurdle to jump soon. Where despite depression and inactivity for a year, I have to persuade someone to pay me £36k salary. When I work, all benefits and legal support for contact with the children will go and this is what I will need to earn to keep my home. Considering that I find it hard to feed and wash myself at times it is an enormous task. I will have to do this within 8 weeks whether I choose to or not.
Working evenings and nights - yes have done this. Hard to get back home from London at 5 am. No tubes and very few trains. Only pigeons and me on the platform. Is a desolate feeling I remember vividly.
I am having nightmares about revisiting hard places I have worked at. I had one this morning. They are getting more frequent.
It might be a mistake to assume my ex has the same values as Sparkling. They are not the same person at all.
There is a difference I think in using a child to get items and the child asking for help with items they need.
Eg
"Ask dad/mum to get you this" 
not good is using the children
and
"Maybe, ask your dad/mum if you need something I can't get you" 
better?
It's not right, in theory both parents communicate about the needs of the child and agree to provide using the resources they have. In many cases separated parents hate eachother vehemently and there is no communication or parental sharing. It's a difference between being stuck on what should happen or improving what is happening?
Ah well, sorry if you are disappointed in me. I wonder everyday how or where the children are. Particularly horrible is when you hear the voice of a child in the street and you think it is your son or daughter and you turn but it is not them.
Must stop now, am locked into painful thoughts now, cognitive therapy and all that.
hug sy
Hi Sadsy. Your ex spending £700 on a fish tank or whatever is outrageous when she couldn't buy shoes. That is totally out of order. Like you, I buy my son whatever he needs, whether I can afford it or not. Somedays I go without a dinner because there isn't enough for the both of us. As long as C is ok, then I don't care about me. (well, I do, but you know what I mean). My clothes are second hand, I can't remember the last time I bought myself something new. I don't call it living, I call it existing.
It must be extremely hard for you Sadsy, and something I couldn't imagine in my wildest dreams, not being able to see the children. You would know by their appearance etc if they weren't being properly cared for, so try not to worry on that score. Easier said than done, I realise that, but as long as they seem happy....... Once the assessment is out of the way, then contact will resumed again. Did you get references etc?
No, didn't get references yet. Sigh. Solicitor has suddenly gone on holiday again.
Alisoncam, have you looked in TKMAXX, sometime there are bargains there? Is fun to rummage in clearance area. Have bought son a cool T-shirt for £3 there.
I thought A looked like she had put on weight at end of 2 weeks, as she was painfully thin. Both children are very unfit because of the computer game life they lead.
You need to look after yourself Alisoncam, am worried if you are missing meals. If you fall, who will care for your son? Your sacrifice is very honourable and your son am sure will be proud of his mum, like I am of mine, especially the years she cared for us alone.
Find some sunlight and stand in it, rejoice that it is shining on you.
Am getting all weird now. Time for a tea.
To be honest Sadsy, I don't go to TKMAX. Don't even know why really. I tend to go to Primark. Do you have that? Someone has given me a winter coat for C, but to be honest, I'm not keen on it, though gratefully received of course.
Not honourable at all Sadsy, for what I do for C. It's what parents do isn't it, no matter what the situation is.
My sunlight is at school, lol. I've got sorting out to do indoors today, C's 8th birthday at the weekend, so a few friends coming round. Couldn't afford a party, but just a few nibbles etc, and the important thing of all, a cake! Hopefully, weather will be kind to us, and the horrors can be in the garden!!!!
Son has got into College.
£60 bus pass
£100 studio fees to be paid.
In my case their father got married in America. They celebrated their anniversary in Greece. They have weekends away and they go to the cinema - often. I do think the best one was taking daughter out to celebrate her 16th, where her budget covered her, step-sister, step-mother and father. She had a 50p copper craft scratch thing as a present.
Sy, I'm angry, I'm not wording things well. Most of the time, I like to think I'm fair.
The pressure is horrendous. I'm broke after getting S's uniform. Son will have to pay the bus pass, god knows how I'll pay the studio fees. I'm praying that this is counted as further education otherwise I'll have to hand my car back. No car means no life as I can't walk now.
It is unfair. I'd love time out right now, even a pub lunch would be good. No one to go with and couldn't afford it anyway. Daughter had my last change this morning as she doesn't qualify for free school dinners anymore.
I feel sick, I'm in tears. I have no answers.
Sy -its wonderful you have got them shoes and coats. Whether she'll appreciate this, I have no idea, but it is wonderful.
Oh Sparkling, more worries for you. It's never ending, and i can hear your distress through your post. You can't be without the car, like you say, no car, no life for you. This is just a suggestion, but how about your eldest speaking to the Git about his situation. He is 18 now, so could it be something he would consider? He can only try after all, and see what comes of it. As for your daughter not getting free school meals now. Could she not take a packed lunch? If her friends are all buying stuff, then i guess this would prove more difficult for her, but given the circumstances, I'm sure she will understand.
You do need time out, and I wish I had the answers for you. Visiting a friend through the day maybe for a cuppa and a chat? Really wish I could help.
Sending loads of hugs your way
x
xxx
Great that your son got in, sparkling lime, not great that there are those fees to pay. Have you got EMA through for both son and daughter? Should be £30 a week each. Can you contact the college and see if there are any bursaries? Are there any local grant-making bodies who could help with the studio fees? Have a look here to see if he is eligible for the FWA scheme.
That's a brilliant link, thank you.
I hope ema sorted, chap we spoke to had no humour! Mind you, I don't blame him. They've just changed from school to college. Daughter's went in early August, so she's hoping for a lump sum to buy a laptop, so we're not fighting for it!
Son is going to pay the bus ticket. Child benefit due next week, so can use that for the £100, and hopefully claim it back.
Thank you again.
xx
I will ask Pansy about "The family fund" thing. It allows 1 thing a year, like a laptop, or driving lessons and so on.
Also Sparkling, are you SURE you are getting all the benefits you are entitled to?
What the hell are Studio Fees? Well done to you both for son for getting into college.
Am so thirsty.
Sadsy I think I am right in saying that sparkling is already in touch with The Family Fund re her 14 year old. They will only provide things for children with special needs. Let's hope the other link might be some good, it is the Family Welfare Association and has an education fund for lower income families.
Sparkling, it is such a juggling act. I sometimes think that we get enough practice to get a summer job at Billy Smart's circus!
Thank you. Yes, 14 year old has had help from family fund. I had a grant for a big load washer and dryer a couple of years back due to his isses, which were a god-send (were? Are...)
Can next apply in October. Last year I asked for funds for a day out, and I took them karting
Studio fees are for all the materials he'll use during the year. I could phone them up to see if I can stagger it, but then if I use child benefit, its out of the way. Major purchasing of uniform and shoes is done. I need to be thinking of Christmas then too, although they're all old enough now to understand if that's quiet.
I'll have a better look at that link when I get in from work later.
xx
Hi there
Going back to the original issue of this topic, it makes me really angry too, when non resident parents won't pay towards their childrens upkeep.
I have too many times that 'she' will spend it on herself, and why should I pay for her to go out etc. eeuurrgh! People forget that all our money goes on our children and that extra £20 or whatever just goes into the same melting pot. Yes 'she' might go out, but 'she' will be doing that regardless methinks, but the children will always come first (except for those selfish parents that is).
I have mentioned this before, but I think Sweden have the best ideas, their Government pay the child support, then they get the money from the non resident parent. Then it is all official and not on the head of the full time carer.
I understand your frustration sadsy as my brother went through the same, he paid child support, had the children fortnightly and seemed to spend most of the time shopping for them as they needed clothes etc whilst ex was out galavanting, however, he put the children there, he should financially support them and not leave it all to his ex to cope with.
I wonder if another idea is that the ex should pay the gas and electric bill or something, then they know that the money is not going in other parents pocket, although I suppose it could be argued, 'why should I pay for the adult to have heat and warmth, they left me'
So back to what sparklinglime, perhaps ex's should be responsible for all school stuff, uniforms, trips and meals?? Paid directly to the school.
I think the sad part is that the non-resident parent should WANT to pay.
My mother-in-law is horrified as she feels that benefits should be there to cover the between £22 and £58 a month CSA that I'll lose. She's speechless about what's happening.
I think if the non-resident parent played fair, however, that the parent with care wouldn't mind how much maintenance is paid.
I find it difficult to say really, as I feel that so much could have been shared.
I felt Scout fees, camps, school trips etc could have been paid, as these, if you like, are extras in life. I could never afford to take my lot to the pool - he could have.
The Git's argument is that its not his place to pay as he doesn't live with them. He said this to my youngest when he was 9.
On the other hand, when I was married, it WAS me who bought the birthday presents, the clothes, school uniform, trips, paid for Scouts and days out - he paid the mortgage and electricity (telling me he didn't know where the rest of his money went...), so it can be argued that he has had no idea of the costs (although costs are shown on the school calendars I have ensured he has)
Had he offered to pay those when we first split up, in mediation, I would have agreed. Now, I'm not sure how I'd feel, as I don't want to have to feel grateful. In the beginning, it would have been right.
I think what the nrp was to be responsible for would need to be agreed, though, as if things are hostile, then things can be taken the wrong way (I am the first to say that The Git can do no right now).
Yes, sparkling, that's what really gets me down: WHY do some parents without day to day residence not care how their children are living? My friend (above) and sadsy go without things to make sure their children are Ok so this certainly does not apply to everybody but the children should come first, before anything and anyone
Well, in a perfect world maybe...
I'm sure though the vast, vast majority muddle through ok, with things being fair - but they don't have the need to rant (like what I do well!)
This probably belongs here...
Walking to school this morning I was gently trying to probe my son about school uniform, reason being he is dressed entirely in stuff from the local charity shop, he wears sandals and his gym stuff is all bright and multi coloured, he has no trainers nor does he have any sort of football team type stuff, like bag shorts and what ever.. and so I was trying to get him to comment on whether or not he felt bad about that... and bless him but he said.. why would I want to be like the rest of the sheep.
: )
Obviously that's a phrase he's gotten from me, but hay! result : )
I gave him a hug and told him I love him, praising good behaviour and all that.
I was asking as I notice all the other children in labels and football stuff and I was listening in on conversations of other parents about the cost of everything and I was thinking, I got all mine 'kitted out' for under £20, charity shops, I love them.
I just hope that mentality lasts with them as obviously they aren't teenagers yet.
Bless him, long may that last! Mine did Ok till they hit about 14 so you have plenty of time.
Mine aren't really football fans. I used to get youngest the child's kit as it wasn't too bad a price for the small sizes.
I think one reason he's given up football is because he sees them in the Wayne Rooney (or whoever) shirts, which he knows I can't afford, with parents chatting about where they got them from and how much they paid, and how much per number or letter, and then in August, the lads were wearing football studs that cost something like £70, with their names embroidered on them.
Youngest, of course, knows he doesn't stand a chance of ever having them. Excluded really.
That's so sweet Bubblegum...
I know nothing about football, apart from, it is a breeding ground for racism and homophobia and lads and ladish behaviour where one group of people hate another group for no rational reason beyond they have a different coloured top on, and then get all proud and happy in celebrating a victory for which they took absolutely no part in wining, and I'm glad my son isn't interested.
:)
I am too (as in my son...)
Hi Bubblegum. Its great that your son feels he doesn't have to 'be the same as everyone else'. I try and tell my son that too. The world would be pretty boring if we were the same etc etc. I'm finding things more difficult I have to say, not with clothing, footwear, but with activities and possessions that other children are doing and have got. C asked me the other day if we were poor!!! Always tell him, that we maybe don't have the latest gadgets and wotnots, but we are so much luckier than some, we have a roof, food and plenty of love, and more importantly, we have each other.
Spot on, alisoncam. I always used to say that we were fine and that I would always look after them and that some mummies and daddies had more money but that was Ok, cos we had everything we needed and then talked about children they had seen on the TV in the Third World with no homes or food as being poor.
My boys do like football but there is no way I would spend £70 on football studs, even if I could afford it.
Hi Alisoncam, I've never heard mine say or ask if we are poor, I do tell them from time to time that we can't have something as I don't have the money, I don't think they truly understand the concept of it all yet, they still think it comes out of the ATM as if by magic from some never ending supply, no matter how many times I try to tell them its a finite resource and we have to manage it to make it last.
My son gets excited when it's a rainy day as he seems to have gotten the impression that I'm going to suddenly spend all that money he thinks I've been saving.
My daughter will sometimes ask for something in the shops and I'll say I haven't got any money for that and then she will say yes you have, pointing at my wallet and then I have to explain to her the concept of budgeting and that OK yes I could just buy three family bars of chocolate but then what about milk and bread and eggs and coffee and all the other essential things, coffee is essential in the stress management that comes from having children, as is wine.
The other day there was wine in the basket at the checkout and my daughter was waving a cake in my face, I said no and was going on about the difference between 'need' and 'want' in an adult responsible fashion.. and she pointed out that we don't 'need' wine do we daddy and I said yes I do so that I can cope with you, the lady in front laughed : )
Of course I had to give in with the cake, trapped by my own logic from my six year old daughter : (
The buggers.
What's that phrase...."hoist by your own petard" Bubblegum!
Mind you, now that mine are older, I avoid them throwing my own logc back at me by saying "when you have your own home, you can choose what to spend the money on" Lots of eye-rolling then ensues 
Hahaha!! She's quick Bubblegum.
My lot have a lot about budgeting thrown at them!
Now they're older though, I do include them in family conferences if they do want something (14 year old chooses not to join in though. He doesn't like serious).
We've been discussing the fact that they'd like a new tele in the boys room, as the old one doesn't work... So bargaining on Christmas, but the three boys would have to agree... Oldest says he'll put money into the pot too (but then its not his present is it?).
It needs to waith though, as I need to see if I can save some money after the back to school/college hit.
I know the oldest was up to something yesterday with The Git, and knowing the oldest it would have been about money!! (He asked me for the mobile number - no landline, and they're not able to 'just' call round).
ha!
I used to get newsletters from an etymology web site a while ago that each week explained the meaning and history of phrases, lots of everyday stuff comes from our nautical past, lot of old military stuff.
I just to day was resorted to explaining to my answer for everything son that he is the child I am the adult and that until he grows up and leaves home I have the final say despite what I may have said previously and despite how he might interpret what ever it is that I said, or words to that effect anyway, just short of in fact, along the lines of anyway.. of, because I said so.
I also just had to hold my hand up and tell him to stop! that I was going to count to three and that if he didn't do want I was asking (it was go downstairs and play on the front room PC rather than bicker and argue with his sister about what games to play on her PC despite the fact that he has his own PC in his bedroom) that if he didn't comply there would be consequences. His little act of defiance was to go downstairs and not play on a PC but loudly shuffle about in the Leggo box.
:)
I like to encourage strong minded independent children, just sometimes it can be a pain. Sometimes I want them to be meek and compliant, if only there was a switch.
the buggers.
Ah you would't really want meek and compliant children, Bubblegum, well not much of the time anyway......
Youngest is too scared to say his name is on the free school dinner list. I've even phoned the school to ask them to help him.
They haven't.
Fourteen year old isn't going to help. It just isn't in his logic to, even though I have asked him. I'm not surprised or disappointed.
Daughter WON'T help! I'm mad with her! Eldest pipes up with he would if he was still there - and I know he would. I'm so frustrated at her.
I'm paying for her, eldest and youngest to have dinner. £30 a week. How am I meant to do this??
Why won't the school flaming well sort it out? Youngest wants the dinner - they have lovely ham baguettes and flapjacks. I'm going to have to make him go back to having a lunch box.
I'm not in a good place today, sorry.
Ring the school again tomorrow Sparkling, and perhaps also have another chat with 16 year old daughter. Why won't she help your youngest. She shouldn't be embarrassed, as she also had free dinners last year and before that, so she should understand.
Don't you get a letter and then produce it to the school?
They've had the letter. I've even written a note for youngest to show.
He'll just have to take a lunch box in, as I can't afford this. I just wonder if those "nice" lads that he was so glad to get away from have anything to do with this.
But then that's just me being nasty.
Given daughter one heck of a telling off for not helping him.
Hopefully the EMA should come through soon and then the two eldest can pay for their own lunch! I have made up some cash bags for my youngest so he has a daily budget until things are sorted out, he can't even have half fare on the bus at the moment as he needs an official letter from the college to say he is on the course and he can't get that till this coming week. So I have to give him £8 a day to cover his fares and lunch, hope it will be sorted by the end of the week. I am not giving him the money for the week's fares; he would spend it all by Tuesday night and then expect a packed lunch AS WELL. 40 quid this week though!!!!!
That is ridiculous the school not taking your say-so re the free meals, sparkling lime. Hope this gets sorted.
Hi Sparklinglime,
How stressful...as if school isn't expensive enough with trips etc. Is it an embarressment thing with your son? Does the school have anything in place so ensure that free school meal recievers don't have to be obviously identified?
HelenT
Those who have free meals give their name at the counter and then are told a number. The other three haven't had any problems at all with this. But if there was one of these lads by my son, then I'm sure that something would have been said...
With the College, I have nothing but praise with the efficiency that they seem to have sorted things. Son already has a card to show he's a student at the College - they even took the photos!
That's an awful amount of money Louise. I know it has cost £60 for this pass, but I can appreciate that its a bargain with him being able to use it for work too.
Hi sparkling lime
That does sound a bit embarrassing for the children, it still distinguishes them from others. Mine used to have a photocard thing and they topped it up with credit. It would good to have a system where those on free meals had an automatic topup of a certain amount per school day and then they would all look " the same" (very important to young people in that age group). Hope that it will be sorted this week.
Fingers crossed that my vast expenditure will only be for a few days. Once he gets his form stamped then we pay £5 and he has half price travel for the year. He has gone off "pretending not to be bothered" this morning, which means he is nervous 
Awwww. I hope his day goes well.
Not at all biased Sparkling. One Space have both sexes as the parent with care. We also read posts from parents who have access to children every few weeks, sometimes mid week.