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Hi all,
Time and time again i read in reports that the courts favour the mothers generally when it comes to being the main carer of children. Now i appreicate that mothers do all the hard work at the beginning by going through labour and giving birth but when that child comes into the world i do feel that this is where the rights of both parents should be treated equally. And before the mothers out there have a go at how well they are bringing up their children and that their ex partners are not capable read this news article:
This is proof that not all mothers, just because they give birth go on to become responsible parents. Indeed in the above newspaper article it sickens me to think this mother was ever left with the responsiblity of bringing a child up. That is just one example and i am sure many of you will say that is 1 incident out of 1000 maybe but that is not the point there is still that very small chance that a mother will bring harm to a child as much as a father could. I know from my personal experience that i am very capable of looking after my son. I am very hands on. I can change nappies, feed, clothe, play and do all the things necessary to ensure my son is well looked after. There is no difference between my self and his mother in the effectiveness of being a parent. Ok i understand there are a lot of fathers who do not make an effort but not all fathers should be tarred with the same brush and i feel mothers need to be accountable to being a parent too and should not automatically get parental responsibilty and the main carer status once a child is born. Maybe there has been a failure in the area of the midwife and social services in the above news article.
I just think in the modern age if a father shows and is capable of looking after a child then the courts should make all necessary provisions for allowing a father to fulfil the role of being a father!
Hello scousecraig30
I totally agree with you that some mothers are not suitable parents and men can parent just as well as women. I changed your title a bit just to shorten it. The article you quote is an exceptional case and my long experience of working with families tells me that both mums and dads can be neglectful and even abusive.
I also agree that the court system will tend to favour the mother, on the whole, but I also see this changing as time goes on. Change IS possible; after all in Vicorian times and before, a child was considered a man's "property", talk about a big difference!
We know on One Space that we have some fab fulltime and part time dads as members and fully support their parenting. You may also be interested in the work of Families Need Fathers
I'm not very goods with words, and do agree with your view point.
I do agree that Dad's often get a raw deal. I happen to know that a Mother can get a raw deal too. In moments when I feel sorry for myself, I think I've had a raw deal 
.
I really do hope that the Court system changes, but I have read so many cases where either parent is frustrated as they feel their concerns have been totally ignored. ( I actually hope that Grandparents and extended family will be given rights by the Courts too, as my ex-in-laws have been my rock, and I love them dearly, as they love us.)
It works both ways.
Each case is different, whether you are the Father who is the parent with care, or the Mother is the parent with care.
Ideally everyone would be happily married, be faithful, loving and non-abusive and capable of making their family their absolute priority.
I'm sure this does happen most of the time - at least I like to think it does. 
When one parent choses not to be any of those things the other can be devastated. One trots of happily, building a new life while the other has to "deal with it". Some deal with it better than others.
While I know it is wrong to involve children (and, by the way, I like to think I'm one of those who didn't), I can often understand those who do.
My children have been through hell. A lot of it was actions taken by the other parent, and a lot as we were made homeless when our Landlord sold up. One thing they've had is me. I'm a wreck, but on the whole my lot are happy, content and settled. They deal very will with the fact the other parent choses not to be responsible as I've never run that parent down in front of them.
However I'm about as bitter as can be, but have been able to keep it away from them.
Every tale is different. But it doesn't mean that the Mother is wrong to keep children away from the other parent, or restrict contact, as we only ever hear one side of the story. Neither does it mean its wrong for the Dad to keep the children away from the other parent or restrict contact, as we only hear one side of that story too.
I do think that both genders need to appreciate that there are frustrations on both sides.
Being a bad parent could be a mother or a father, a mother gets automatic PR as she gave birth & carried the child which I fully agree with, it wouldn't really make sense for a mother to not have auto PR unless proven not fit would it! Mothers get pr as they are automatically put on the birth ceft, if the man gave birth then he would auto be put on the ceft, weather you have both made the child, he/she is still coming out of the Woman's body-not the mans! Not all fathers are suitable to care for a child (some mothers aswell) as u said . Don't get me wrong I do see your point & my male friend got full custordy of his baby daughter as the mother was unfit, he does a fab job of bringing her up. I guess it also depends on the judge you get.
Hi Tinkerbell
I appreciate that women give birth and it is probably one of the hardest things a woman will ever have to deal with but to then give them automatic parental responsibilty based on the fact they give birth just means that the child could then effectively be left with an incapable parent as in the news article above. Then you have the Baby P story which shocked the nation. The mother again failed her son by not protecting him from danger. Now i am not saying all women are the same because obviously 99.9% of them are perfectly good mothers but there is also that small chance that giving a woman automatic parental responsibilty is putting that child in danger. Carrying a child around for 9 months in your belly and giving birth does not mean anything if that baby is then going to experience neglect once it is born. So my argument is that when a child is born then both parents should get parental responsibilty regardless of who gave birth or not. I know the current system means that a women gets it and then only a an gets it if his name gos on the birth certificate or was married to the mother. This is degrading and annoys me so much. And even then when it comes to relationship break up it is the mother who tends to use the child as a weapon even when the father wants to put the effort in and be in his childs life so much. This to me is not the sign of a good mother. It is the sign of a selfish mother who can think only of herself and not the childs best interests. The law in this country really needs to change!
Both parents get PR if the dad is on birth ceft, even if he isnt he can fight to be on it! A dad could use a child as a weapon, not just a woman...a dad could get full PR for whatever reason and then abuse the child once in his care! it all works both ways. Take me for instant, I split with my daughters "dad" while I was pregnant as he didn't support me & stole money out our baby funds. I bend over backwards for them to have a relationship but he let's her down all the time & hardly turns up for visits & when he does he neglets her but i wouldnt stop visits as its my daughters choice to decide if she wants to see her dad, not mine. he's on birth ceft so has joint PR....do u agree that a dad like deserves joint PR? Hell no! If u don't mind me asking are you going thou a child battle or ex using child against u? if so I'm very sorry & I'm my experience I haven't come across many men who fight for their kids so I take my hat off to those who do.
I do accept it seems unfair Scousecraig but am afraid you have to blame biology for that. As a woman gives birth it is 100% clear she is the mother of the child (hence auto PR) to determine the childs father you have to consult the mother, so obviously the dad needs to be present when the birth cert is filled out or married to the mother. How else do you propose they do it?
How can a dad get auto PR without the mother being present to confirm he is the dad? Obviously, some women do abuse this which is why fathers have the right to apply for PR. i dont know how you expect the law to change this?
I guess it would be hard to change the PR law in that some women may not know who the father of their child may be or they may be genuinely frightened of an abusive partner and may not want him on the birth certificate. Having said that, a man who is excluded from PR can have a DNA and prove it. I agree that the fact of giving birth does not automatically make someone a good mother and this is often (not always) picked up during antenatal and post natal care.
The parent in the article posted by scousecraig is obviously an extreme example but I do believe there are "other" forms of unacceptable parenting (by both sexes) and one form is to completely disregard the feelings of a child and to use that child as a weapon against the other parent. This happens with both dads and mums and includes such things as continually criticising the other parent to the child so that the child feels put down too and may go back to the other parent with such tales as "daddy says you are a *****" or "mum says that your house is filthy" as well as the more obvious ones about reporting each other to Social Services (with no good cause) and emotional blackmail of the other parent. This goes on far more than most people realise but in 11 years of working with families I cannnot say that it is more likely to be men than women or vice versa!
I suppose what I am saying is we can change the law but we cannot change human behaviour unless we legislate for THAT. In some countries, when a couple separates, the courts automatically assume a 50-50 split of parenting time and the plan is worked out from there, whereas in the Uk the automatic assumption is that the child will live with one or another parent, usually the mum. Now THAT is something that may very well change over time.
Hi all, the story in the news article was despicable, obviously the mother had mental health problems and a poor upbringing herself and I also note there is no mention of a father.
What frustrates me, and I am guilty of it myself is how poorly we have seem to have chosen (or not chosen, just slept with) people to have children with, whether we are male or female. Some of us were with our partners for years, built up homes and stability, then one day it comes crumbling down around us and we are expected to just pick up the pieces and carry on. Others of us have had shorter relationships, split up then can't stand the way our ex's parent our children. We don't want them around our children, whereas we obviously thought they were the bees knees initially. Others of us have had very short relationships, become pregnant and then wonder why the ex doesn't want anything to do with the children, when we never really knew them in the first place.
We need to start teaching our children about positive relationships, to take our time to get to know someone, their friends, their family, be honest with ourselves and others, be respectful of each other, take responsibility for our own lives and happiness and not have sex with anyone until we know that they have all those attributes too.
Hi scousecraig,
I do agree with you that the system isnt always fair to fathers, but I dont think that article proves anything. The mother in that article is a bad parent full stop. No need to highlight a case like that to state the claim about mothers. Their is good and bad in both sexes.
However I have a much better example that promotes why fathers should get more rights. My grandad (mums dad) brought up 7 children (one not biologically his) whilst my nanna ran off to be with another woman. He did this in the sities despite the social stigma and he did an absolutely excellent job on his own (never remarried) and continued till his death to put in the hard work with us grandchildren and great grandchildren.
What I am saying is I do recognise your point and it is true but I dont agree that you should use an example of some bad mother to highlight your point. Instead use examples of good fathers - like yourself.
I wish you well with your plight though. Good luck
x