Help my son's been excluded from school!
I don't really want to get into a discussion about his behaviour as that is being dealt with. Incidentally he was punched by another kid but unfortunately hit back and made the other boy's nose bleed. He was so upset he went on to be rude to a dinner lady. This has happened before but he always makes things worse for himself - hence the school refuses to believe his version of events. Nothing justifies his violent retaliation in any case.
The issue I'd like to ask the forum is can anyone offer any advice on how to cope? As a single parent, I now have to find a way of being in 2 places at once and I don't know how to do this.
It has thrown up all sorts of practical problems, not least the problem of what do I do about my TWO job interviews next week. One of the school teachers - not my son's one thank goodness - glibly commented that my job interviews aren't important. I think differently. After 20 years of being a full-time stay-at-home mum, 10 years of which I've been ill, I'm finally in with a chance to earn a living again. In spite of plenty of job applications, the last job interview I had was a whole year ago, so I really don't want to pass up the chance now.
I can't really bring a 10 year old to an interview without messing up my employment prospects and I don't want to leave him alone for several hours. There is NO-ONE who can look after him for me.
There are quite a few excluded and expelled kids on my estate and they hang around getting into trouble. I don't want this to happen to my son. The school has told me that the next time they will expel my son. This, of course, would mean that even if I get a job, I will have to hand in my notice to stay at home and teach him myself. I think the schools really expect kids to come from 2 parent-families with one parent available at home :o$ If he is expelled will I be sent to prison for his non-attendance??
I tried to get some school work for my son to do over the next week so he doesn't fall behind right at the start of term BUT the school said NO as he is being punished! This strikes me as possibly illegal -does anyone know about education laws? I'm afraid I really am at a loss here. I did argue that once my son feels he has fallen behind (he is precociously bright - a huge part of the problem), he will give up on trying to learn and that I fear he would then redirect his energy from learning to being disruptive.
Have any of you been in this situation? If so what did you do about it?
All advice gratefully accepted. Thank you.
Thanks for your very helpful reply Fi!
The school has put a letter in the post, so it could be a few days before I receive it. This is so irritating as I live just 3 minutes walk from the school!
Everything happened very suddenly this afternoon while I was out getting things for my daughter who leaves for university in a few days. My daughter was the one who took the phonecall from the school and was told that her brother had been excluded for 5 school days with immediate effect. She ran up to the school immediately and collected him. Actually I'm a bit surprised the school let her take him as last term we all had to fill in a list of authorised people and I had not put her name on the list as she was not expected to be around.
I called in to the school on my way back home and just managed to catch my son's new teacher as she was going into a meeting. She actually has a very good understanding of him and was dismayed by how everything had escalated so suddenly. Unfortunately it is indisputable that my son's behaviour was unacceptable and contravenes the school's behaviour contract so he is being excluded full-stop!
If you can dig up those addresses, I'll be interested.
Thanks
Hi Harissa,
Just want to offer you some support. I went through exactly the same with my oldest son. His secondary years were a complete nightmare for me and my other lad!
He was excluded on hundreds of occasions... category 1 to category 4.(maybe diff here I live in Scotland)
I worked also, and it was a complete nightmare trying to juggle all the meetings, getting calls from the school etc etc. I was lucky that my employer was very supportive.
I asked everyone for help.. the school, welfare officers attached to the school, and can say that it did help me cope. I swear sometimes I could have knocked him into next week :)
In the end my son was put into part-time education, and it worked! :) He left school with some exams, not alot, but enough to get him a job, and he's a good lad. Infact we often have nights where we have a giggle about everything he put us through. Can laugh now, but at the time, I thought of him as a selfish little **** who was stopping us from having a decent, normal existence. He couldn't see that at the time, but maturity has let him see now.
I remember dreading every day when he was at school, just waiting on that phonecall to go and fetch him :x
He's nearly 23 now.... :D
Ask for help... and make yourself heard!
Take care
J x
Hi Harissa
It sounds as though you are going through a really difficult patch, Princess is right, seek as much info and support as you can.
Try http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/index.html they have a fantastic text service where you can get advice, also you can speak to people directly on their exclusion advice line - 0808 800 0327 (Mon to Fri 10-5pm). There is also an online forum, just please don't desert us!
Its brilliant to hear that we have Fi who has worked with Exclusions and Reintegrations, she gave a very helpful reply.
Depending on what type of job you are going for, you could ask for a postponement of your interview, don't give them specific reasons why, as no prospective employer wants to hear that you may have childcare problems!! If the job is in a big business/organisation they may not be able to change it as they probably have all interviewers booked for a specific date, but if it was for something smaller, you may be able to wangle a later date.
Good Luck Harissa, we are all behind you, please keep in touch and let us know how it goes, if you find the support available helpful or not. I hope Princess' experience brings some hope and light to the situation.
Princess, I went through all that with my older son and he ended up being placed in a special unit. With him it all started with a teacher who just didn't like him and who intimidated him in class. He lost his confidence, fell behind and eventually gave up altogether. We were told that he would never amount to much. Anyway the unit was really supportive and soon got him back on track. He earnt the respect of staff and pupils alike and was able to reenter the conventional school system where he succeeded in getting a good number of well-graded GCSEs! The unit was so delighted when I told them but said that the school should never have let him fail so badly in the first place as he was so well-brought-up and intelligent.
So when my younger son started to show the same signs at the beginning of the last academic year, I wasted no time in asking for help. He were supposed to have been contacted by a scheme called platform something or other but it is now a good 9 months later and still nothing.
What really gets me is that the sorts of things schools leap on these days were really simple matters of basic school discipline in my day. The draconian measures my sons have experienced used to be reserved for kids who were total barbarians eg- those who vandalised the school, pulled knives on the teachers, or who were caught drinking and smoking. A child simply answering back is now sufficient cause for a school to summon a working parent home to remove the miscreant!
Well, I took my son to London today and we spent several hours exploring the Wellcome Collection. He has learnt a lot about skeletons and disease as well as how to read a train timetable.
The school has left a message on my phone "Our school policy is we don't provide work whilst a child is being excluded." I have a niggling feeling that that may be contravening some Government regulation but I just don't know.
I'll try that 0800 phone number shortly
I'm not going to alter my job interview as I don't want to jeopardise any chance of getting the job.
Thanks for all your support, I'll keep you posted!
I've just found that help line is closed for straff training today and reopens tomorrow from 10 am.
I'd been planning to tackle the headmistress before the school opens tomorrow morning but am still in the dark about our rights. Is anyone able to come up with a reasonable argument to counter "Our school policy is we don't provide work whilst a child is being excluded." I have already used every argument in the book (apart from legal as I am clueless there) but school policy is school policy and cannot be argued with!
AARRGGHH!!!
Just wrote long post and it didn't submit!!! :evil:
not got time now to write it again!
Basically it was asking you if your younger son is walking in the older ones shadow??? I had that problem with my sons. My youngest was constantly picked on by certain teachers, as they automatically assumed that my boys were the same... trouble! :?
He spent the 4 years at secondary saying that he was not his brother! :(
Sorry I cant help with the info about provision of work. We live in Scotland and some things are different. Our school had to for my lad. But it was never marked :evil:
Good luck with the interview!!! You go girl :D
J xx
Hi Princess,
There are 8 years between the 2 boys and my older son actually lives with his father. I had to do that to protect him from a gang of local boys who were making his life hell. The younger boy is not copying his big brother and was still a toddler when we went though it all first time round. If anything, my older son is reprimanding him for acting like an idiot! After all, he has been there and done that already!
It all boils down to the fact that I can keep order when my son is in my care but I cannot control him when he is within the school :o( The teachers tend to expect the worst from kids from around here, which doesn't help. Ironically, littlun is the 1st male on his father's side not to be public school educated. If the money was there, he probably would be faring considerably better in a system which has higher aspirations of its pupils.
Hi Harissa - this is what I'm posting in from our Local Authority guidelines but I think Anna beat me to it, anyway!
"You may also find it useful to contact the Advisory Centre for Education (ACE) — an independent national advice centre for parents of children in state schools. They offer information and support on state education in England and Wales, including on exclusion from school. They can be contacted on 020 7704 9822 or at http://www.ace-ed.org.uk"
I firmly believe your school's policy on not setting work contravenes central Government guidlines and you school Governors ought to come up with a damn good reason why they hav gone against it (they are ultimately responsible for school policy, don't forget, not the head teacher!)
Sounds like you might have a fight on your hands - I hope you get the proper support from your Local Authority. I can say with complete confidence that if this was a Worcester school there would be a ton of bricks raining down on them for the way they've handled this!
Sending cyber-hugs and good luck for the interviews. Fi x
Good luck tomorrow - here are some ideas - I hope they make sense.
Don't let yourself feel "in the dock" the success of the meeting depends on you and you should be treated with respect.
The school should work around your job interviews as you will be central to any positive plan for your boy and they need you onside. You going for job interviews provides a powerful positive role model for your boy.
Try to keep on track to getting things right for your boy - it can be hard not to feel under personal attack
If you can, I recommend taking a friend as it is hard to remember what is said in such potentially difficult situations.
If you go to http://www.governornet.co.uk and follow the link to "Guide to the Law" you get the latest version of the law for school governors. Chapter 13 is all about behaviour and exclusion and has further link to " Improving Behaviour and Attendance: Guidance on Exclusion from Schools and Pupil Referral Units, September 2007." This is the latest and it sounds like school have not followed it too closely.
Education should be provided from the sixth day of exclusion! (so you might have trouble getting work from school even though this would be good practice.)
Alternatives to exclusion should be promoted
Exclusion should be short "1-3 days often long enough to secure the benefits of exclusion without adverse educational consequences"
If you can, it is helps if you leave big disagreements with school until your boy is not present. Remember you can request the governors disciplinary committee consider your case if you are unhappy.
Good luck tomorrow and with your job interviews
Tony
Hi Harissa
I agree with Tony about bringing a friend tomorrow if you can, it helps a lot even if they don't say anything. I also think that asking the Head for work for your son is very positive. If you go in to see the Head in this frame of mind, she/he should respond well. The Head will see you want the best for your son.
Parent governors can be a big support. When my son got excluded quite a few years ago now, the parent governors were a great support. He's doing great now.
Hope all goes well tomorrow. Really feel for you.
Thanks Fi and Tony.
It now makes sense why why son has been excluded for 5 school days, if from the 6th day the school is obliged to provide work! It is a shame that there is no such thing as detention anymore. That would be a much more appropriate punishment and indeed WOULD have been the prescibed punishment back in the days when I was his age!
I do indeed feel I'm in the dock over this and I dread confrontations, not least because I have a significant hearing impairment so tend to miss the odd essential word even with both hearing aids in. Unfortunately there isn't anyone who is around to hold my hand that time of day.
I'm sure the school is looking for the least excuse to get rid of my son. They have already warned me that they will expel him next time. Is this more likely to happen if I make a fuss? It doesn't help that he's fallen into living down to their expectations so he has shot himself in the foot somewhat.
I'll try that phone number again tomorrow to make sure I've got everything clear in my head before I take issue with the school in person.
Just go for getting him back for today
There is a lot more you can do later if they really want to go down that way
Appeals to governors, complaint to LEA......
Best if you can go for agreement on best way forward today
For future meetings you can get a friend to join you - best to leave any big arguments till then as witnesses are important.
ACE are very good
One other thought: How's your boy? Is he angry with the other? How will school deal with them in the future? He could well be encouraged to really go for it this year ... make the most of his last year at primary and get back on track before secondary....
He'll probably be feeling bad and your belief in him will be crucial (even though he might not show you for a few years!)
Good luck to you both
Tony
Well, I took everybody's advice and have made some progress since my last posting.
I couldn't get through to the ACE helpline as it was constantly engaged and with no option to wait in a queue. I did, howver, leave a message for their information pack and that reached me late yesterday.
I managed to get hold of the school exclusions department and, as you suspected, she confirmed that my school had completely contravened the guidelines on just about every count. She sounded personally quite angry about this and said that she will be contacting the headmistress.
I have saved the answering machine message about the school policy not to provide work for excluded children - it might be needed in future. I phoned the school immediately after my call to the the Exclusions Dept and politely stressed that their refusal to give out work was in breach of Goverment rules, as was the fact that I STILL had not received anything in writing. The incident happened midday Wednesday and it was then midmorning Friday. This set the cat among the pigeons and I was told to come in at 2pm and collect a copy of the mailing and the week's school work.
On arrival the secretary sheepishly admitted that the original mailing had NEVER left the office in the first place as it had been held back because of a typing error. How ridiculous, considering I personally went to the secretary and teacher a few hours after my son had been excluded and had asked for the letter only to be told it had already been sent out!! Evasive or what!?
My son is mortified at the huge amount of work he has been given. As I thought, excluding a child without expecting them to work is more of a reward than a punishment! I'm not looking forward to getting him to do the work, though I can't help thinking that the school is rubbing our faces in it.
Apparently what should have happened is that we should have been assigned pastoral support by a behavioural support team. This first exclusion should only have been for 1 or 2 days NOT 5. The Exclusions Dept confirmed there is no previous record of my son being excluded and therefore the school is jumping the gun threatening to expel him next time. The school has consistently failed in its responsibilities and is now passing the buck onto me and blaming me for their failures!
The exclusion officer advised that maybe, in the circumstances, we would be better off moving my son to a different school. Without access to transport our choice is limited. The interesting thing is that most of the better-behaved aspirational kids have been creamed off to "better" schools already. My son had been quite despairing at the loss of so many of his close friends in that manner and that is just one factor leading up to this situation. Unfortunately, I felt it would be inappropriate for us to feign religious belief in order to get him into the catholic school where many of the friends ended up.
Oh lordy! I've just discovered that at least 5 of my son's friends in the same school have also been warned that the next time they act up they will be expelled. The school does seem to be rather too keen on exclusion. It certainly accounts for the high number of kids hanging out in the play areas during school hours. Now I'm curious how many others are in the same boat!
Hey stick with it - you are clearly making a difference and showing them you won't be walked over.
There are a lot of points here and its late so here's a first instalment.
Moving schools may not be the best solution - it is unsettling to move and distracting. If your boy is in year 6 and planning to move to secondary next september it may be better to put energy into arranging visits to secondary schools - in our area Secondary visits are imminent - rather than looking around for a new school for his last year at primary.
If 5 others are in the same boat it sounds like a school not coping. If you can get support from ACE or locally you might try writing formally to the governors at the school asking to speak to the discipline committee about behaviour and exclusions policy - but don't do it on your own. You could make a complaint and ask for a response to the different issues you have raised.
It's good to hear the exclusions officer is on your side.
Do what you can with the work but it's unlikely it reflects too closely what he'd be doing at school this week. This could be a time for reflection, growing up and looking forward to how he'll make the best of "big school". Year 6 is a notoriously difficult time for many boys who are getting ready to move on.
My main point is to put energy into the future rather than dwell on the obvious inadequacies with your current primary school - and encourage your boy in the process.
Tony
Thanks Tony,
The local secondary school is almost certainly where my son will be going. As a campus-style establishment, it did used to have issues around break times when the kids were free to wander off to the local chippie and some took the opportunity to make trouble. However, from last year, all new intake no longer have this privilege until they reach a particular year - so that is one danger area addressed. I think that my son would probably do well there as there is an atmosphere of mutual respect between staff and pupils. He tends to kick out when he feels that someone is "on his case". My older children went there and, while they didn't reach their potential, they did well enough. All of the alternatives are pretty much no-go schools unfortunately. The kids from moneyed homes tend to be schooled at fee-paying establishments or bussed over to the Buckinghamshire grammar schools.
My son has well and truly been falling apart this week - it is clear that he has lots of emotional problems. Being excluded seems to have opened the floodgate to him giving up on himself altogether and we've now had the police round as well following a fight in the kids' play park (just an ordinary kids' play fight which got heated - not an armed assault or anything like that). It just seems endless at the moment and the timing couldn't be any worse. In fact all the upheavals in the house possibly contributed to his emotional upset in the first place.
He is really cross with me for getting the work for him to do, so supervising that AND getting the letter written to the Pupil Discipline Committee is going to be quite a task.
It never rains it just pours!
Sounds like you have your hands full. The letter to the discipline committee can wait or just be a brief request. To some extent what you'll want to say will depend on how things proceed and how the school sets up for his return. You'll have time to do that when he's back at school.
In the meantime it probably doesn't matter too much how much work gets done but it is a good opportunity for you to show the importance of it. It would be great for him to have some to take on his return and if you can help him with it its probably more useful than anything.
It is a big rejection to be excluded from school. 5 days is a long time. Especially to be cooped up with someone feeling bad. If you can help break up the tasks and agree work times and breaktimes you may be able to celebrate little successes on the way. Perhaps plan in some joint activity like cooking after hes done agreed amount of study
I think it could be worthwhile looking forward to next year. It's better to have you on his case now than to have people on his case in secondary school because of trouble hes been in. It is the right time to resolve to do his best with SATs work and get into a pattern of doing some work at home before going up.
It must be hard but he's lucky to have you on his case and he will appreciate it if not now in the future.
This may be daft but I wonder how he would respond if you told him how important your interviews are to you and you would appreciate his help doing a practise interview where you'd give him questions to ask.
He might respond positively and appreciate the opportunity to do something helpful for you - or It might be a wacky idea!
Stick in there!
Tony
I'm sitting here crying after the latest mess-up. I am just so upset and angry.
This morning at 8.15 my son and I were expecting to attend a meeting with the headteacher to prepare him for being allowed back into school today. It was hell dragging my son into school as he was not looking forward to this at all. We then found ourselves standing at the school door for 10 minutes waiting to be let in and once inside it was another 15 minutes before the secretary informed me that the headmistress had cancelled the appointment because I had not confirmed I would be coming!!!
I reminded the secretary that when I phoned her on Monday, I had explained that I would be bringing the appeal letters to the meeting with the headmistress on Thursday. In other words I was convinced that I had confirmed we would be coming to the meeting. The secretary said that the'd assumed that I wasn't able to come as I'd told them last Wednesday I had a job interview today. Remember I didn't actually receive the letter with the appointment time until Friday (it wouldn't have reached me until Monday if it had been sent out in their post on Friday). Surely my phonecall to the school on Monday should have been final and made it perfectly clear I could come?! Grrrr!
I wash my hands of dealing with the school now. I've left a message with my son's father telling him to deal with it. Hopefully he'll have a lot more success.
Hi Harissa
You seem to be having a very testing time, is your son in school now? Or do you have to wait until you have the official meeting with the headteacher?
You have been given some great support and advice from other users of this group, I hope you can glean some strength from that. It sounds as if you are being treated very unfairly, do write all of this down, with dates and times as it will be useful in the future.
Keep trying to get through to ACE, as they will be the best people to tell you how to go forward with this. Did you notice on their site that they have a text service also?? That may be a quicker way to get a response from them?
Talk to your son about what your expectations of the school are and how you feel they have treated you, be honest with him, but without condemnation (if possible!)
It is totally understandable that you are feeling at the end of your tether, it sounds as if the school have completely disregarded your keeness to get the situation resolved.
Perhaps you and your son can have a quality afternoon together, do something you both enjoy, treat yourselves. It sounds as though there will be lots of hurdles to face in the near future, so take time out today and you can deal with it stronger tomorrow.
Best of Luck Harissa, its very obvious you are trying to do the best for your son, keep us up to date with what is going on, you have a lot of supporters here.
The school's reply to my appeal letter arrived this morning.
It is clear that they are attempting to defend themselves by blackening my character and my son's and inferring that I am the uncooperative party! I'm sorry if this sounds like a paranoid reaction on my part but it really is not.
Their main argument is that I made no attempt to discuss the issue with the headmistress. I thought that by agreeing to attend the arranged meeting and actually showing up for that meeting (even though the headmistress did not) was an attempt to do just that. The headmistress was not available before then in any case, I'd asked!
They also state that I did not return the referral form for the behaviour management program I'd requested my son be put forward for. I actually completed it TWICE, the first time was on the school premises (they must have lost it) and the 2nd time was when my son brought a form home and I sent it back to school with him the next day. I wouldn't have known they hadn't received it but the teacher would have had the opportunity to say it hadn't been received at the time of the next parents meeting. I despair!
The school is also saying that the child involved in the fight with my son is terrified of him and scared of being in school. This contradicts somewhat with my son telling me on his first day back that the boy played with him at lunchtime and wanted to be his friend! Something fishy here!
In the circumstances I am going to be searching for a new school - it looks like the line of least resisitance. His education is going to be disrupted whatever I do. I have completely lost confidence in the school am finding it painful and exhausting to carry on in the face of their hostility and lack of co-operation. If they are like this with me, WHAT have they been like with my son? My blood runs cold at the thought!
Here's a few thoughts Harissa.
It sounds that if your boy gets back to school it will be a lot easier for him than you'd feel especially if the boy he was supposed to have been suspended for and him are getting on as well as you describe. It's your blood running cold probably not his!
The letter from the school - who wrote it? Was it Head teacher or governors? If it was the headteacher - it would be worth making a request to the disciplinary committee of the governors to ask to put your case with a friend present
You could ask for a pastoral support programme to be set up to include a representative of the Local authority - schools can act differently when they feel under the microscope
If you have really passed the point of no return it would be worth looking at other schools
You said earlier that you wouldn't approach the Catholic school because that was not your religion but many Catholic schools take some non-Catholics and if you approach them with the support of the exclusion officer who seems to be very supportive towards you and with the background you have described in this blog I think you should have a strong case for them to make an exception for this year.
I would be very careful about taking him out of school. It is a huge commitment and for many it is too much. You already have the lion's share of bringing him up - surely the schools you pay taxes for should be educating him? And you need and deserve a break if you aare going to do your bit well
Where is he now?
His school are responsible for his education
If you are not happy with them you can approach the admissions section of the local authority and ask for a place in a neighbouring school - your exclusion officer may be able to help.
Whatever you do, be proud of what you have done so far! He is lucky to have you behind him and you know him better than his school. I hope you find a school with the wisdom to treat you with respect and welcome your involvement in their task of giving him the best education they can.
Stick with it!
Tony
There have been a couple of developments since my last posting.
1. On Monday my son was banned from attending the afternoon school trip to a local safety centre which was supposed to be part of the PSHE curriculum. I was not notified of this, though I did find out that 2 other boys had also been banned, though their parents had been told in the previous week. The parents simply did not send the boys into school for the entire day. Unfortunately it was quite an essential educational trip and ironically the kids who had most to learn were precisely the ones who were barred from it.
2. I suffered a relapse in my health and am currently wondering if I'm going to be out of action for day, weeks or months. I'm not fit for much at the moment.
3. My son's father attended a meeting with the headmistress and thinks it went well. It seems that a lot of the arrangements which had been made in the past had apparently gone by the wayside as, during the last academic year, my son's class had 3 changes of teacher and also a change of head teacher. (My son's year has been pretty unlucky in that respect since they joined the school)
We've decided to leave our son at the school for now and see whether the school keeps its word this time. We are also continuing to look at other schools in case it all goes pearshaped.
Hi Harissa, not SURPRISING you've suffered a health relapse with all the stress the school have put you through recently! Does this kick the whole job application thing into touch?
It does sound like the school have let you down, especially with so many changes of teacher in the last year - that will really unsettle a class, especially a yr 6 one - hope the school aren't pinning their hopes on particularly good SATs this summer :o
I hope you can work things out with them so your son has the stability there he deserves this year and here's hoping high school will be an improvement! Take care, Fi x
Hi Harissa
It has been a while since you have been in touch, I hope you and your son are well and the situation at school has settled down.
I used to work for the Exclusions and Reintegrations section of my local council (now I work in a school itself) and your son's school has broken god only knows how many guidelines.
If a child is permanentl excluded (obviously I hope it doesn't come to this - and the school will have to have a bloody good reason for this - they CAN be challenged on this and I have known them be overturned) then the local education authority has to make provision for his education - not you!.
Yes, the school should set work for him during the period of his exclusion and arrange for it to be marked.
Did the school really not send home a letter explaining all your rights, including rights of appeal and independent advice at the time of the exclusion? If they didn't I'm aghast. Ring your education authority and ask to speak to the Pupil Exclusion Mediation Officer in their Exclusions Department. If you son is felt to be at risk of permanent exclusion you should also be assigned a Reintegration Officer to help and advise you through this time. They are great (at least our ones in Worcestershire are!)
There are some more addresses I could give you for advice but can't remember them offhand - I know I've got them at work, though, so I'll post them tomorrow.
Meantime, take care. You and your son have been treated shabbily by the school - don't put up with it. Fi xx