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Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)

Pansy

This maybe useful to someone some day. When I found this infomation about a year ago, I cried with relief that I had found something that described my daughter exactly!

My daughter has been like this since she could walk & talk! I have two other children who both have Aspergers, my ex had clinical depression & a drink problem. I am finally, only just getting my life in order & today I finally attended an appointment to speak with someone about my daughters problem, she confirmed that it is ODD but will not give a dignosis of it as I think they are reluctant too as it is not a very nice one lets face it! Also she said all they will do is refer her for anger managment to The CAMHS team anyway, which is what they are doing.

The following is taken from this web-site:-http://www.klis.com/chandler/pamphlet/oddcd/oddcdpamphlet.htm

Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)
What is it
?
ODD is a psychiatric disorder that is characterized by two different sets of problems. These are aggressiveness and a tendency to purposefully bother and irritate others. It is often the reason that people seek treatment. When ODD is present with ADHD, depression, tourette's, anxiety disorders, or other neuropsychiatric disorders, it makes life with that child far more difficult. For Example, ADHD plus ODD is much worse than ADHD alone, often enough to make people seek treatment. The criteria for ODD are:

A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least six months during which four or more of the following are present:
1. Often loses temper
2. often argues with adults
3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
4. often deliberately annoys people
5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
7. is often angry and resentful
8. is often spiteful and vindictive
The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.
How often is "often"?
All of the criteria above include the word "often". But what exactly does that mean? Recent studies have shown that these behaviors occur to a varying degree in all children. These researchers have found that the "often" is best solved by the following criteria.

Has occurred at all during the last three months-
8. is spiteful and vindictive
5. blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
Occurs at least twice a week
6. is touchy or easily annoyed by others
1. loses temper
2. argues with adults
3. actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
Occurs at least four times per week
7. is angry and resentful
4. deliberately annoys people
What causes it?
No one knows for certain. The usual pattern is for problems to begin between ages 1-3. If you think about it, a lot of these behaviors are normal at age 2, but in this disorder they never go away. It does run in families. If a parent is alcoholic and has been in trouble with the law, their children are almost three times as likely to have ODD. That is, 18% of children will have ODD if the parents are alcoholic and the father has been in trouble with the law. (13)

How can you tell if a child has it?
ODD is diagnosed in the same way as many other psychiatric disorders in children. You need to examine the child, talk with the child, talk to the parents, and review the medical history. Sometimes other medical tests are necessary to make sure it is not something else. You always need to check children out for other psychiatric disorders, as it is common the children with ODD will have other problems, too.

It goes on to say that these children are very manipultive & are capable of convincing others i.e grandparents or teachers that they are being wronged somehow. They are very clever at finding ways to get what they want.

Hope this may help someone one day.

Pansy

Posted on: November 11, 2009 - 6:53pm
Pansy

Just to add,

Today we had the appointment & the dr at the childrens centre confirmed that yes my daughter most definantly fits the symptoms of ODD exactly!
she has been like it since we can remember too, which is how I have always knew that something was not right, but it was only a year ago I found the web-site.

They have refered her to CAMHS for anger managment & to the out of school service for her education as I can no longer affoard to pay for her internet school. My eldest has been under the out of schools for a few years & has done well, she was there because of her anxiety.

Thats the last of it now! Have got son's final statment through & he has been reffered to the out of schools too, I am waiting to hear from them.

So that will be all three in out of schools service &two under the CAMHS team!!
It was hard going to the GP to tell her about 13 yr old, I broke down in tears. It was something I should have done years ago but did not want to think that ALL my children had issues, she did tell me though that it is not uncommon for all the children to have things on the spectrum, but no matter what anyone says it does make you feel a faliure!
I have actually failed my 13 yr old because I left it to long, because of the very nature of ODD it is hard to admit to your child being like this & because I have now had years worth of it as well as a husband with depression & a drink problem I am worn out with it & I honestly don't know if I can cope. I wonder sometimes if she would be better off with him rather than me. He probably understands her better than me. They are VERY alike, but because of him not facing up to his own problems I guess I would be failing her again if I sent her there, so I am stuck with it. It is a shame he can't be ok, he could have her with him & my other two would find their life so much easier. It is hard for them to deal with her espacially with their anxiety problems which comes with having Aspergers. And even harder for me to admit I actually wish she did not live here. I just hope it gets better from now!
Pansy

Posted on: November 11, 2009 - 7:42pm
sparklinglime
DoppleMe

I hope that you find CAMHS to be supportive wth your daughter.

Do you have something like Specialist Children Services? They can be supportive (equally they can be unsupportive, sadly), and maybe you are involved with them already. They have summer clubs, saturday clubs and respite care (although I have never had anything for Chris as promised - he wouldn't do the clubs), and I know parents here have found them valuable.

We also have a parents forum that was set up by the specialist children services, and we have regular meetings to discuss issues raised by the social services, and we ocassionally have social meet ups too.

Contact a Family run courses that can have helpful topics, and here they arrange cinema afternoons so you can take your children and not worry about how they behave.

Most of importantly Pansy, remember you are superb in all you have achieved. You have not let your children - or your daughter in this case - at all.

I just hope you can get some support through this.

Look after you too.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Posted on: November 11, 2009 - 9:34pm
Louise
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Thank you for that, Pansy, it sounds very stressful and I guess that the difficulty with diagnosis is not just that there is a reluctance to "label" a child but also there may be occasional times when many children exhibit some of this behaviour...and so a pattern had to emerge over time.

Sparkling lime is right, you need to look at support for you and her. Social services sometimes have budgets to provide some activites or respite care for families in your posiiton. Make sure you fight for the best for her....and you!

Is there a support group atttached to the website you quoted? it would be good to talk to other parents in the same situation

Posted on: November 12, 2009 - 9:28am
hazeleyes
DoppleMe

Hi Pansy
Loads of hugs for you, cos you need them just like your kids. I have no idea what you are going through, but from what I've read, it is really tough on you. You're amazing, so don't feel like a failure, because no way are you that. You're strong, and you're a brilliant parent.
You are always there to support others, and I just want want you to know, that we are all there to support you.
Take care, you're a special person
Alison
x :)

Posted on: November 12, 2009 - 8:56pm
Louise
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hi everyone

Pansy just asked me to post this link I have found, which may help people whose children have this condition: http://www.familyvillage.wisc.edu/Lib_odd.htm

Posted on: November 13, 2009 - 10:15am
Claire-Louise

Hi Pansy
Thanks for the post. This is anew one for me so thank you - it is amazing to learn something new almost daily! I hope it might be of use to others on this site too. It must feel good to finally have a diagnosis as it is often the bit waiting for a diagnosis that can be the most worrying. I hope the CAMHS team are supportiveand can offer you the advice and support you need.
good luck
C-L

Posted on: November 15, 2009 - 8:22pm
Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hi pansy, I'm still catching up with posts, thanks for sharing your experience, it sounds as if you had to really take the bull by the horns when you went to the doctor and be prepared to be told that your daughters difficult behaviour was nothing she was just being a teenager etc etc etc. SO a huge pat on the back for you, it must have been really daunting. :)

Although from your original post you sounded relieved to finally have an explanation for your daughters behaviour, it sounds as though you are finding life pretty tough, which is SOOO understandable.

I know you have had some difficult times with your ex recently, but is there any possiblity she could live with him for perhaps part of the year?? I know that you want to be able to handle it all, but you are also questioning the effects on the whole family.

Get in touch with Contact a Family http://www.cafamily.org.uk/medicalinformation/conditions/azlistings/c52.html, as respite is so important for you to dcontinue doing such a great job.

Posted on: November 20, 2009 - 11:02am
Pansy

Anna,
I could hug you! you have actually suggested that my daughter maybe 'live' with my ex :o even though you know the problems that he has had. Thank god someone can see things through my eyes a bit!

Actually today I had friends round that I have not seen for a while, one of them is a trained psychiatric nurse, she has also in the past met my ex on a few occasssions so has seen him at his best, but also knows & understands all the goings on & his problems. I told her today how I am unable to cope & how I feel & she also said why not give it ago! There was after all even a time when me & my ex were still together that we often talked of him moving out with my 13 yr old just so that we can seperate the kids, we always said she should be a only child & this is exactly what my friend said today, she said do I think she would be the same if she was on her own? & told me what it was like on the wards with all the patients competing for the attention & seeing who could shout the loudest! she also said she is old enough to let me know if she is not ok & she knows my daughter too & said she is sure she would soon say & tell me what is going on if anything was wrong & that my well being & the other two childrens well being is important too.

I actually woke up & had a panic attack today! I have never in my life had feelings of panic. I got it for the first time the other day when BF went home,I think maybe because I was going to be on my own again & I have reached the stage of feeling a bit unsatable on my own.

That is now three people, as both my friends said it, & I am so pleased as no one has suggested it but me so far & I have been met with :o how could I consider it given what has happened & I shouldn't split them up. But of course I just want to try it, nothing has to be set in stone & she may not want to stay up there & live, but if she does I think I will let her. I don't think I have a chice for the sake of all of our sanitys.

would love to hear everyone elses thoughts even if they are not in agreement.

Pansy

Posted on: November 20, 2009 - 7:24pm
Louise
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

hello Pansy

Can't offer you an opinion as I don't know enough about your daughter's condition, what I will say, however, is that you are her Mum and I am sure that whatever you decide, you will do so with the very best of reasons :) Also only you can judge how to "put it" to your daughter in terms of trying it out etc. You certainly have had a lot to cope with lately. Do you think that her dad is in favour of her living up there?

Posted on: November 21, 2009 - 8:24am
Claire-Louise

Hi Pansy
I am not sure I can ehlp hugely with this as I have never come across ODD before so I do not have a real idea of what it is like to live with. However I have worker with people on the Autistic/Aspergers Spectrum and seeing as you have 2 children with aspergers, that in itself must be a lot to cope with. If you feel that your daughter would benefit from living as an only child with your ex and that the 2 other children would benefit from having one less person with a lot of needs in the house and that your ex is up for it and up to it then it may well be worth a try. Do you think it would be unsettling for her to move in with your ex?
I hope you are able to make a decision that benefits all concerned and that you are ahppy with.
C-L

Posted on: November 21, 2009 - 7:48pm
Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hi pansy

I hope you had a good weekend? How are you feeling? I know that I often used to feel quite panicky when I had friends stay for the weekend and then they would go again, but it is only fleeting. You can and you will cope. It is just about readjusting again.

Have you spoken to your ex or your daughter about your recent thoughts?

I think Louise made a valid point (as she always does!) that you are the childrens mother and you will do what is best for them, if it doesn't work, then you can reconsider. I wonder if part of your hesitation and questioning (apart form how ex will look after daughter) is a guilt on your part, you feel you SHOULD be able to cope with it all and by considering her living somewhere else means that you are letting her and yourself down? If this is the case, try thinking of it the other way around, you may well be doing everyone a favour. It might be just what she needs, this is why you have considered it in the first place.

Make sure you are looking after yourself. :)

Posted on: November 23, 2009 - 11:50am
Pansy

Hi Anna, Louise & Clare-louise,
thank you for your messages.

Yes, ex has already said he would be happy to have her there to live, I think it is what he is hoping for, that she will want to stay there. She is going up there one weekday next week & coming back with her brother & sister after xsmas with their Nan. The other two will just be going for a week at xsmas with his Mum. Personally I think there is a chance she may want to stay, but am not sure as she will miss her sister & brother even though she fights with them. I suppose all depends on what happens when there. The girlfriend of ex has niece of similar age & nephew that she looks after alot, anything is possible but it could be that things will not be as rosey there as we are all hoping. Will just have to see what happens.

Yes Anna you are right I DO feel I am letting her down. I feel I have given up on her, but I have to change something & it is worth playing it by ear & seeing what happens I think.

Pansy x

Posted on: November 23, 2009 - 12:41pm
sparklinglime
DoppleMe

Loads of hugs pansy.

Posted on: November 23, 2009 - 2:11pm
Claire-Louise

Hi Pansy
As long as you know in your heart of hearts that you are doing it for the right reason then that is all that counts. There is a saying that you have to be cruel to be kind and recognising that you are possibly feeling guilty is a good first step and that she will benefit in the long run, as will your other children as the extra space and attention they will all get will benefit everyone. I assume they will still all get together and see each other from time to time so as not to loose contact with their siblings - is that right?
I have come across a new phrase and out look on life which I find very useful - 'what will be, will be' and we cannot be in control of every outcome that the best we can do is to try something and see what happens.
Good luck
C-L

Posted on: November 24, 2009 - 5:27pm
Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

hey pansy, that sounds really promising.

Your feelings of guilt are understandable, but you are doing the best by your daughter, be proud of the fact that you are prepared to let her go for a while. It is a huge step for both of you, but it doesn't mean you love her any less.

I am sure that when you are with her, she is going to a) get the best of you without the stress and b) she will be completely spoilt!!!

How is she feeling about it all?

Posted on: November 25, 2009 - 10:59am
hazeleyes
DoppleMe

Hi blackvelvet. Has your son been diagnosed with ODD? If you could, perhaps you could tell us what has been happening.

Posted on: November 2, 2011 - 11:46am
Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hi blackvelvet

Was your son supported by the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service (CAMHS) when he was younger than 18?

If so, when he turned 18 was he then referred onto an Adult Mental Health team? See Community Mental Health Teams (CMHT).

If not, you need to contact your GP and get further information on support for yourself and your son.

If so, do you have a contact that you can speak to regarding his behaviour?

Posted on: November 2, 2011 - 3:15pm