i just had to share this one with someone to make sure i'm not going mad!!
i have three children girls 17 and 15 and a boy of 11, dad left the family home in april ending our 27 year realtionship abruptly.
i am trying to cope but struggling as i feel very alone particularly with discipline issues and mostly with my 17 year old daughter.
they have all taken the split badly and are struggling - i am trying to keep stability at a time when the kids lives are changing beyond recognition on an almost daIly basis (friends, boys, school, etc etc) My husband is showing me no respect when it comes to dealing with the kids - and he is not the one living with them all the while. My one daughter 15 has realised that if i say something to her, she can call dad and he will fly in and "rescue" her.....for example i asked her to empty the dishwasher, she told me to f... off, she was supposed see her dad that morning so i asked him to wait until she had done as she was asked and he just said no and took her out for the day saying "i thought things would calm down with me out of the way" implying that the arguments in the house are my fault. I know from my friends that the issues i am facing are typical teenage issues and but without his respect and backing i am being made to feel like it is all my fault.
tonight, my eldest failed to come home for tea having said,as she went out this morning that she would be back. I texted/called her 15 mins after we had eaten tea, to ask where she was - i had a reply to say "i'm on the bus home, i'll sort myself out."....i had an idea that she was goiing to her boyfireinds but it was not explicit. I texted her an hour later to say that it was not the fact that she was not there for tea that bothered me, it was the complete lack of respect shown by not texting me to say she wasn't coming and where she was. I had no reply....then, Three hours later (and a pile of snow/dangerous conditions) later she just walked in to the house.
In the hour or so that she has been in, she has called me abusive names, thrown a cup of tea in the kitchen and told me to ....off. all because I simply told her that i was not happy that she had not had the courtesy to text me that she would not be home for tea, or where she was. She stormed off back out of the house at 10pm in the dark/snow.. Came back 20 mins later, helped hersefl to food out of the fridge and gave me another dose of abuse. I am 17 i can do as i like etc..... I did not shout at all and she is a complete self generating rage. I have been left feeling very alone and questioning what i think is a perfectly reasonable request on my part for her to show me some respect...do you think i'm being unreasonable to ask a 17 year old girl to tell me where she is or whether she will be around for meal times??? I am worried too that the other two will turn round in the future and say well she did it and got away with it.....
This behaviour is not as a result of the split...she has always been like this and if i'm honest, her behaviour has dominated our family and, i feel contributed to my husband's decison to leave as we were struggling to cope with the faimily "battlefield" that the eldest in particular created. In the months before he left my husband was showing me little respect as a mom and the kids watched him saying "do it yourself" to me if i asked for help sometimes adding a swear word or two. I feel that at the age they are, this has been very influencial and they are following the same pattern. I'm frightened to be too strict or make demands on them because they swear and rage at me and ultimately i'm worried they will decide to go and live with their dad.
Help i need reassurance please.
Hi headfulloffog
Welcome to One Space. I have just read your other post too about the house, pension etc, and now this one. I can't offer any help whatsoever as I've not been in any of these situations. My son is only 7, (so I have that all to come)
If I was in your position I would be feeling exactly the same. No, it isn't wrong to expect a text from her. It must be made worse when you don't have the backing from your ex. (I am on my own with discipline etc, sperm doner hasn't bothered at all)
You will receive lots of advice on here, and even though I can't help much on this issue, I can offer my support along with the others
Take care, and lots of deep breaths!!!!
Alison
x :)
Hello headfulloffog
My heart goes out to you. I have two boys of 20 and 15 and have been through the mill. My reply is going to be tough because that is what your daughter needs: tough love.
Firstly, once they hit the age of 16 you can ask them to live independently if neccessary. If they wish to remain in your home, however, then they abide by your rules. The split has just given her more ammunition to play you off against each other, although one thing I think is going on for her is "my dad has left me, I have to prove to myself, over and over, that however awful I am, my Mum will not leave me" Therefore in disputes, criticise her behaviour, not her. It sounds as if you are already doing this anyway; there is a world of difference in "You're so inconsiderate and rude, get up to your room" and " I am not prepared to tolerate that type of behaviour and language. When you can speak in a civil tone of voice then we can discuss things properly"
Contracts are a good idea for teens. The way they work is this: you make an appointment for a meeting with her. You say that you are concerned that things are not going well between you and that you want to improve this. You have a large piece of paper to hand and you say let's each put down ways we would like things to change. On your side you can put things like "either turn up for meals on time or let me know at least 2 hours in advance that you will not be eating with us". On her side there might be things like staying out later. Remind her of things you do already, such as giving her lifts etc and make sure they go on the list. From the list draw up a short agreement, with the paper divided in two with a vertical line. There should be the same number of things on both lists. Sign and date it and agree to review in a week. No matter whether she keeps to her side of it, you do yours anyway then have the review and say that you expect in the next week that she will keep her side of things and that you will not do yours if she does not do hers. AND STICK TO YOUR GUNS.
if the whole idea of a contract makes her tell you to f...off again then you simply say "I am not prepared to tolerate that behaviour. Are you prepared to speak civilly to me or shall I speak to your father about you living with him, as I am not prepared to have you living here if you behave like that." if neccessary you WILL have to ask her to leave. No matter how old she is then it is your house and your rules. If she is that grown up then tell her that she is obviously grown up enough to live in her own flat Stay calm whatever she says. Stay strong and stayt focused, you will win in the end.
If you think she would benefit from talking to someone outside the family then try Relateen (see http://www.relate.org.uk/find-your-nearest-service/index.html) Relate also run a course called "Riding the Storm" that can help parents of teens
I like the idea of the contract...
I'll be trying this if things don't improve here when school starts back.
Thanks Louise
Wow Louise
That was really good, and the contract is certainly something I would myself consider when my lad is at that age! Tough love is very hard isn't it?
:)
Yes it is hard, because however old and cheeky they get, you still love them to bits and want to put your arms round them and make it all OK. And at the same time they can be soooooooo infuriating :x
Glad you found it helpful headfulloffog :)
Alisoncam you will be well equipped for the teenage stage, having chatted with people like myself, Sparkling and Anna, who have been though it/are going through it. ;)
Also a book which I have recomnended before: "Get out of my life...but first take me and Alex into town" by Suzanne Franks and Anthony Wolf
That title made me laugh. Yes, I will have a lot of knowledge when my son is at that stage, thanks to all you wise wonderful women. :) :)
Good thought, lightatendoftunnel! Parentline are very helpful. here's the number: 0808 800 2222 or see http://www.parentlineplus.org.uk/
Hi there headfulloffog
This is a really hard time for you, parentline plus's telephone help is excellent, do try this. Also see if there is a parenting programme in your area for some other ideas/ways of handling your teens. This will help meeting other parents going through similar issues and finding solutions and also give you some handy techniques for when your son gets that little bit older.
Have a read of our articles on teenagers, which includes info about the contract Louise mentioned: http://www.onespace.org.uk/articles/teenagers
It is not fair of your ex to lay the blame on you for their behaviour. If he has been around all their lives then he has 50% of the responsibility for how they act/react. It also sounds as though he has contributed to their undermining of you.
Do you have family or friends close by? It sounds as though you could do with being reminded that you are doing a brilliant job and that you are a good person who only has the childrens best interests at heart.
thanks to you all for your kindness and advice...this is so tough isn't it.
i'll try relate and parentline i think. My daughter would have a complete fit at the idea of a contract i know. Yet, i am so scared of losing her...it's amazing what you put up with isn't it? Had me and her dad still been together, we'd have probablty asked her to leave by now but since her dad has gone i've become very protective of her (and the others) and absolutely fear her or any of them turning round and saying they are going to leave (especially if it was to their dad - although my friends say, it might be for the best if she left) .
I'd feel as if i'd failed so much as a parent (as well as feeling a failure as a wife as i do) if one of them decided to go. He has for his part completely forgotten what it is like to live with kids and says things like "i thought things would get better when I went" implying that i am in some way to blame for the behaviour. I am not the one who shouted and ranted at the kids - that was him- and i now think the kids, the eldest in particular see shouting and swearing as the normal way of handling things. They can't cope if i am just talking in a calm, non shouting voice..bizarre isn't it
I think it is becuase i perceive my family as broken and am trying to glue it together no matter what. It is all still very raw too....less than a year since he went and difficult times for the kids with exams etc so there is a lot going on.......oh my goodness who'd have anticipared all this in a once apparently happy family
My eldest was 12 when we left.
We were playing frisbee on the beach and he broke down and said that we weren't a family anymore... Now The Git chose never to do things with the children and me, so I said to my eldest 'look around and tell me what's different'. He picked up the frisbee and that seemed to sort that out.
While I'm sure a psychologist would have a great time here, I like to think that we are a family. I say that to the children.
I'm five and a half years down this long road though headfulloffog, so it's so easy for me to say this. It took me about three to get to the acceptance point.
I'm wondering how you would feel about trying to talk in a calm manner for a day or two, to see if what your daughter sees as normal can be changed. (I just don't seem to have the patience to try these things though... )
Hi headfulloffog
It is difficult times. Our teenagers just want to feel listened to and understood. Perhaps you could suggest that you feel that things are difficult between you and you really want to know what is going on for her, then just let her talk without interruptions? Perhaps go for a coffee, meal or ask her to get a film that she likes that she will share with you.
I understand you wanting to protect 'the family' and keep everyone together, however another member of One Space eventually decided for her daughter to go and stay with her dad for a couple of months and I believe this has actually worked out ok. We need to do what is best for them and although your ex doesn't sound like he is being understanding of you or your relationship, maybe she needs to spend a month with him to remind her that at home with you is where she is happiest?
Whatever happens you will not lose her, whether she moves out and finds her own place, lives with her dad or stays and continues to be difficult. In time she will grow and know that you always had her best interests at heart.
It sounds like something has got to give. Would your ex have her stay with him?
still swimming thanks folks......i got a copy of the book recommended "Get out of my life....but first take me and alex into town." have begun to read it and it does give an insight into the teenage mind and in particular the differences between how boys and girls behave as teenagers....i wish i'd been able to read it before my girls went in to the teen years. (in case anyone is wondering i got it used from Amazon uk.)
i'm not in to this forum/chat stuff but it does strike me that people really do want to help and that is lovely. I'll try to "post" more regularly but it is not something i'm used to yet.
things are a bit calmer in our household but it can be calm one minute and mad the next as you well know. my eldest is still being very difficult (no change there) ....and i still feel i have no respect from them. i trudged home with bags of shopping in the snow last week, walked in to find both teenagers on the computer/game console, asked them to help put the shoppping away (got a mouthful) and was then told i'd forgotten something. I walked in to the room an offered the eldest some money to nip to the corner shop to get the missing items and was given a list of lots of reasons why i should not expect her to go
"get the car out", "get it delivered", "don't expect me to go out in the bad weather", "i'm not doing the shoppping" being amongst the reasons.....
i honestly do wonder what i've bred at times...surely i'm not being unresonable am i?
i also can see (as that book says), that kids do see things from an entirely selfish point of view...they will help but only on their terms..if they clear away from a meal, it is with a lot of arguing/often swearing and grief but if chalelnged they say (rightly??) that they are helping/doing it.....It gets to the point where it is just not worth asking them and it is easier to do it myself rather than listen to it all kicking off. I don't know how to get them to realise i need their input or should i just give up, do it myself and just acknowledge that life will just be really hard work/unpleasant for the next few years until they finally mature/leave home or drive me nuts whichever comes first!!!
i could scream at my paretner leaving me at such a difficult time in the kids lives and expecting me to just "live with it"
Hi headfulloffog
As I was reading this:
i trudged home with bags of shopping in the snow last week, walked in to find both teenagers on the computer/game console, asked them to help put the shoppping away (got a mouthful)
it was going through my mind, 'I hope she didn't cook their dinner, and I hope she unplugged the console'.
...surely i'm not being unresonable am i?
You are definately not being unreasonable. They are old enough to help you out, and I guess they are just pushing you to see how far they can go. This isn't just because you're on your own with them, this also happens in two parent families. I remember quite clearly my Mum saying that she'd rather do things herself, than get all the mumbles. (we wouldn't dream of swearing at our parents)
Maybe I am wrong, but can your daughter not see that you are hurting just as much as the rest of them. Could you sit her down, (when she is having a really good day), explain how you are feeling, tell her you understand how she too is feeling, and that things would work better if you all pulled together.
Sending hugs your way
Take care
Alison
x :)
hello headfulloffog
I agree with alisoncam, but I expect you DID cook their tea... I can so relate to you in this situation. Don't forget what I said about the contract: if we want them to do certain things then it is a good way to tie them in to seeing what we do for THEM
My 15 year old is in a relatively calm period at the moment (oh no, I shouldn't have said that :shock: ). On Sunday I asked him to get a spade and clear some of the snow from behind the car. His reponse was "what's in it for me?" I said just a chance for you to repay some of the things I do for you" Of course this did not go down well and he flounced upstairs. An hour later I called up and said "Are you going to clear this snow then?" He said " UUURGH Do I have to?" and said "No you don't have to, it is your choice. Of course all the extra things I do for you like contact lenses, credit on your phone and giving you lifts everywhere are also MY choices, I just think it would be great if you would CHOOSE to do something in return." He did it (with much swearing and chuntering)
Staying calm is defintely the key, as the book says, but wow that is so difficult!!!!
OH god, I don't want a stroppy teenager, it's hard enough to deal with a stroppy 7 year old
don't panic!!! help is out there it would seem. people are very helpful...do try that book Get out of my life etc. ......it may be a bit dated by the time your little one reaches teens but a lot of it will apply...as i say, i wish i'd read it before mine got to teens cos it does go some way to explaining their behaviour if not neccassarily improving .
Yes...i did cook the tea...(was frightened to admit it!!!) LOL
am trying to stay calm and say the right thing but it doesn't always work does it...i know i have to get my confidence back as a parent that has taken such a battering since my husband has gone... its as if i am scared to assert my rights for fear of upsetting and losing them, but they are walking all over me it seems.
I am trying to see the positives but get so bogged down with the day to day living with teenagers and am so scared about sorting out the divorce (the kids think it is all sorted - "hes left us the house what's your problem mom?"....how wrong they are)
today i am going to think....i have a right to not be shouted at, i have a right to ask for help from my children and i have a right to have feelings too....here goes...............
That's wonderful, headfulloffog, good luck and keep posting so that we can keep supporting you :)
Alisoncam you will be a total expert on teens by the time your boy hits the terrible teens, going through all this with us!
sounds good headfulloffog, let us know how you get on. Best of luck. :)
feeling pretty low to be honest and wondering how anyone every recovers from the berak up of a long realtionship especially when coping with the kids and having no space to get over things. my home should be my sanctuary but it is not...it is a teenage battlefield most of the time. they are so pre occupied with themselves (normally/naturally) but at the same time so needy. i feel so alone at home and have to keep on a mask to shield them from what is going on........a lot of the time i just feel like crying but i can't expect them to live with that all the while...
it must be the same for all people - worrying about the future etc and i feel very lonely and fear being alone like this for ever. I'd been with my husband for 20 odd years............ Depite the kids behaviour, i feel that i can't plan for my life too. tTey are beyond the age of being able to "get a babysitter and go out" and dad never has all three together (I can't telll 17 and 15 year olds to go and see him anyway). the net result is that i never know when i am going to be on my own....and i'm finding that very difficult. On the one hand i know i need space to be able to find out who i am and do things for me..... and then,...when i then do find myself on my own (say if all three go to friends....which may happen with ten minutes notice,) ...i panic simply because i haven't had time to get my head round the fact that i am going to be on my own and i don't like being on my own /people can't just see me at the drop of a hat like that. Because of the age of the kids/the way my husband only has one at a time, i never know when i am next going to have even a moment to myself. the other side of that however is that i am still struggling with the break up of the family and part of me doesn't want them to go anyway and is holding on to them for fear of losing them...i know i am not letting the little one go as much as i should because i am afraid of being on my own...gosh this is a mess
My husband has gone to someone else and i realise he has done his lying and deceipt to set that relationship up, before he left the marriage/family and i feel angry with hime for leaving me in a situation where i can't move forwards........for me, I can't even beging to imagine how i will ever be able to beging to rebuild my life again when i just can't move from the kids........it is vital in the teenage years that you know who they are with, where they are and what time they are going to be in and out ..but how do i then translate this in to my own life now if i was ever to be able to go out with anyone again.... how do people with teenagers ever get to go out ???
people are saying "do something for you each week..go out fto an exercise class with a friend "....but i've reealised that without the extra adult presence in the house, the minute i go out even if it is only for a hour or so, the kids are on their own. that may seem like i'm stating the oobvious and it's not them being alone that bothers me...they might not even notice i was missing for the first half an hour!!...it is just that feeling i have of my kids being lonley.....as if i have to be there all the while to plug the gap /hole that dad has left in their lives. i want to be there for them all the while but i do need to try to get over what has happened and try to rebuild my life (with feuding /uncooperative teenagers) and i just can't beging to see how to do it..............................
I don't want to lie to my kids but if i was ever asked out (remote possibility) i'd feel the need to tell them immediately and that is exactly what people say you shouldn't do..."don't tell the kids if you go out with anyone until it is serious" how will i ever be able to have a life without lying to my kids...i had a friend who's kids were little when they divorced and she had some fun with internet dating for a while but she could just get a babysitter and go out for a night or two without having to tell the kids what she was doing
Its not that i have a date ( i wish i did at times ) or that i have started internet dating but do i have to accept that my life has to be effectively "on hold" for 5 or 6 years until my youngest is of an age that i can resonably expect to go out.
before you say, i haven't got any close family or friends who could have the kids...
i'm so scared of ending up alone and i feel so worn out looking out for all the kids ..........teenagers don't give hugs and i could really use a hug just to say..there can be light at the end of the tunnel cos i just can't see it
I was married for 20 years. I did meet someone, but ex made it such a nightmare, that has moved to a friendship (and, to be honest, will not change from that as I have seen so many similar traits in him...).
Open University was probably the first thing I did for me. When my eldest hit 16 I actually dared to go to the supermarket without the children - I told them, and left before they asked if they could come :) It's surprising how 'nice' it is to dive into asda on your own!
Before Christmas I took a chance on doing a craftclass on a Thursday afternoon, I had to leave early to get home before they did from school, and I probably missed a third of the classes as one of my lot was ill.
Again, that was 'nice'.
The biggest thing I've done is Scouts. I sort of run the group, Scouts and Cubs and I love it. It means I mix with people and as much as I claim to "hate" children, I really am very fond of them (shhhhh). It has got me mixing with other adults. My oldest will babysit, so it's meant that I've been able to mix with even more adults doing the odd training course. My children are all involved with Scouts.
As for meeting someone. I've come to accept I won't, mainly because of me. Accepting that has made things easier for me.
I am, however, almost six years down the road now (will be in March) and it took me a long time to get to this point.
It isn't easy - and there are often days when I want to scream the place down (children's faces are a picture when I actually do!).
And here. Here has helped so much...
Hello headfulloffog
Some wise words there from sparkling lime and Claire Louise. I agree with all that has been said but wanted to add my little bit.
Of course you don't have to put your life on hold for six years unless you choose to. It seems to me that you are feeling guilty towards them because of the break up (even though it wasn't your fault) and think you need to be there for them 24/7. Actually you don't. By having a life of your own then you are "modelling" a way of being to them. Teenagers will walk all over you if you let them. You are entitled to a life as well. Start gently with one evening a week. Choose an evening when you know that they havn't got any activities. Have a family wallchart and write in your night out. This is all part of the same initiative I talked about to you before when I was tellling you about the contract thing. You can have a family meeting once a week or fortnight. It is all about YOU SEIZING THE INITIATIVE AND BEING IN CHARGE. YOU CAN CHOOSE THE WAY THIS TURNS OUT.
As for lying to them about dates, all they have to know is that you are going out with your friend John or Mick or Steve ;)
Hello jennie65
You're right: calm is the key. I have noticed that chldren and young people often seem to be more "difficult" when we are ourselves feeling stressed. It is hard to work out whether it is in fact our stress rubbing off on them or a sort of instinct that the have that we have a chink in our armour 
For anyone else reading this, have a look at our article Five Tips for Dealing with Direspectful Teenagers
Keep up the brilliant work, jennie65!
We do the family meetings here too. I don't decide anything without including them. When we were homeless and I was able to borrow the key to view this house, I didn't set foot in it until we were all together.
Same with the car too, they all had to like it - and fit in it, seeing I have four children!
We do have yelling sessions. Rare enough that perhaps they do actually take notice, seeing my son has actually started to do some things around the house again (long may it last).
I have issues with my oldest, who has just turned 18. I've not had a good day with him.
The only reassurance is that you're not alone. I have no answers. It's so hard when you don't have any back-up, and no support from the 'other' parent. Today, if he turned and told me he was going to live with his dad, I'd have helped him pack.
I'll see if I have a more positive reply later :roll:
Sending loads of hugs your way.