This site is an archive of the OneSpace Forums. Return to forum index.
Hi Louise
I'm still feeling really frustrated with the decisions that "we" agreed in court last week, frustrated that he's taking a month's holiday before making face to face contact with daughter. Frustrated that I've been told what i can and can't say to daughter in the order. The fact i've never dissed her dad and only spoken highly of him to her DESPITE what he'd done to both of us .. and that the undertaking was ordered by cafcass for Dad and has become both of us for "fairness" just stinks.
Daughter asked me a question about her dad on Monday after their weekly talk and to be honest, I now can't answer it because I'd be in breach of the order. THis is ridiculous. Its worded badly for a parent with day to day responsibility who is responsible and has her daughter's best interests at heart.
I was trying to stop a number of things:
Dad speaking inappropriately, promising daughter things that would never happen, stop him upsetting her, and stop bad mouthing me.
Now, I feel like i cant talk about anything to do with dad for fear that it might be misinterpreted.
Daughter and i continued to have a bad week. I sat down with her and had a long chat with her, talking about a number of things, including her dad, the phone calls (which she is bored of, but scared to say anything to dad about it as the last time she did, he stopped contact), school and life at home etc and I'm trying to implement a new regime at home iwth her help.
We are seeing her specialist paedeatrician in a fortnight which im glad about as her anxiety has really increased (not surprisingly) so I'm hoping that she will be able to help.
ANy ideas you have though would be greatly received!
Also, we went to her weekly club on Saturday to find out she is due to move up a class (which is fab), but guess what, its at the same time the contact sessions are due (as i arranged them to be after the club. How do i go about talkign to dad about this? Obv it won't be till Dec/Jan but I dont want daughter to miss ehr classes, i did that on the last contact and she never really settled into the classes she attended and progressed. What would be ideal is if he took daughter to the classes then had her for the rest of the time afterwards.....
That's a trickey one Flapjack as i'm sure you want to answer your daughters questions as honestly as you can, how did you manage the situation in the end? I would be inclined to answer her questions and try to filter out the bits your not allowed to, which it sounds like you were doing anyway, It sounds like you have great communication with your daughter and can talk with her about most things.
Unfortunately you can't do much about your ex's behaviour, you just have to equip your daughter on how to deal with it, the fact that you are able to talk with her will help. Does she have anyone else that she can go talk to?
What's the new regime at home?
Regarding the contact and lessons how do you think he would take your suggestion? are you able to email him? you could always get your lawyer to write to him with your suggestions.
I have no idea how he would take it. He can be a bit of a wild card. He just wants to be disruptive and bloody minded! He got 3 hours contact after the supervised visits because "it was winter and he'd have time to take her somewhere"(recognising he was meant to arrange contact in JULY so it wouldn't be WINTER - sorry, have to remember we are here NOW so July is irrelevant.....
) - which means if i interfere in that time by 45 mins for her club its potentially not going to go down well. At the same time, this isn't deliberate and its something that any "normal" parent will deal with for the sake of their child. I'm happy for him to take her BEFORE the class and have her back in time (but, she'd need to be collected at 8.45 for the 3 hours and he's not a morning person, alternatively a pick up of 1.15 but, then that causes problems because I'd hope he would feed her/give her packed lunch and doesn't leave him much time in the winter to take her out with the dark nights drawing in...
She had a child psychologist at school, but she only once mentioned dad in that time (I only found out daughter was seeing the counsellor after I'd had a meeting with the counsellor at the end of the sessions, before that daughter hadn't even mentioned her). She's only really a talker with her back to me and in the dark. its very rare to actually get her to open up.
I told daughter honestly that she wouldn't be seeing her dad until after Halloween and then reassured her that she'd be coming home to me after the visit. NOT answering the questions make them more of an issue with her than answering them. I dont know how to keep to the terms of the order WITHOUT "breaking" them when LO has these questions. Its unnatural for child to have a relationship with both parents and not discuss the other not in their presence, and I'm very unhappy with the wording being for both parents. I was looking for Dad to recognise that he says things that upsets and refrains from that, rather than me have my hands tied to being a parent....
We've an agreement that we will only ask each other once (max twice) to do things - she feels that I nag her all the time (I don't, just repeat myself an awful lot), that she won't attack me anymore (I've had things thrown at me recently) and that her behaviour will improve and we can then go out and do some positive things togheter - bowling, cinema etc
I'm guessing that it will be the solicitor to speak to him about the sessions as he just becomes abusive to me, or bad mouths me to all and sundry after the event!
Hi Flapjack
It does feel to me as if asking about the club would be a bridge too far at this stage.
As far as the questions go, I would inclined to say "I don't know, sweetheart, I will tell you as much as I can when I know it myself". She is only little and they are easy to distract at this age, often with something really silly like thinking you saw a blue dog out the window or wondering what the pebbles in the dish are whispering to each other.
That's great that you have had a chat about things and the not having to ask repeatedly for her to do things, well done you. A star chart works REALLY well with this age group or another technique with little ones is to have a toy who does the naughty thing you want your child to stop doing, and you tell the toy off in a big exaggerated voice then say "Oh TEDDY! Zoe never does that, Zoe always......"(whatever behaviour you want from her). This used to work a treat for my boys
When she throws something at you, you use the first then method. read all about it by clicking here
The other top tip I can give you, which will be your number one technique throughout the whole of her childhood and teenhood is....STAY CALM, NO MATTER WHAT, easier said than done I know 
Hi Flapjack,
To be able to make sense of it all, how he thinks and how the Court works, I suggest you read the books of Lundy Bancroft, they are all so well written and describe exactly what you are going through and why, with him, with Court and other professionals.
The best one to describe this : the title is a bit simplistic "Why does he do that" and it starts slow, but you will be able to completely understand what is happening and be better prepared for how things work on the other side and maybe be able to handle things in a different way.
Also his other books are fab, but that one is particularly about mindsets. I hope it will get better for you in December
Thanks Christmas2012... i've just ordered it!
Although, it would be really helpful to figure out how to get Karma to kick his behind! ;-)
Sorry for delay in responding Louise, its all been a bit manic and Operation New House has taken a step up... so I'm spending most of my time either at work or round the house trying to get in for/over Christmas!
Had a really good weekend. All my stuff has been stuck in storage for about 3 years and we are at the stage of having a room "finished" so I've been lugging boxes back to where I'm staying and sorting them. Its really therapeutic throwing stuff away that belonged to your ex (he's had 3 years to ask for his stuff and hasn't)... I'm hoping that I've now got rid of everything bad and only good happy things will be entering our new home!
I've been trying some diversion tactics so she now thinks I'm nuts and having dreams about pink elephants walking in our hallway :-S
Yesterday we had a meeting with her Dr who thinks we might not be looking at autism, but anxiety with a certain level of dyspraxia ... so I'm now looking into that and seeing how we can help support her.
the doctor is really concerned with the levels of anxiety my daughter is showing at the moment .. she's started stimming again and spinning around in circles, the last time she did that was 3 years ago when her dad left. He actually thinks her development has gone backwards since the last time he saw her and there is now about a year's delay in her development. Thing is, I think I can pinpoint the child's demise and it points to July time (the school also backed this up because they put her on an intenstive speech therapy course as her speech had slipped), so either, her dad getting back in touch (phone contact in June) or changing class/teacher at school. But daughter is happy at school, is enjoying her teachers and all reports suggest she is settled there... which then points to Dad. But, of course, if I say that, I'm the wicked birth mum trying to stop her daughter having contact with her dad. Arrrgh
I've been told by my barrister that if I wanted that argument, I need to get that written in a report to present at court.. but the school is all anti-getting involved in parent battles - rightly so - but it really doesn't help my cause... and, everyone i speak to just sits on the fence. They will say, "yep there's a problem". When i say "can you write it down?" they put some half @rse attempt sitting on the fence.
Frustrating frustrating frustrating!
Very frustrating Flapjack and such an incredibly slow process. I am so sorry about your daughter, she deserves better than this and if your GP supports this your GP might be able to refer her to an expert who could write a report for Court, rather than an expert through Court.
Hi Flapjack i can hear your frustration at getting the right support to help your daughter, i can also see why everyone else is apt at sitting on the fence, this kind of report is usually written by a psycologist or Dr as they prefer someone who can give an educated opinion.
Even the psychologist in the past tells me what she is going to write and then writes it sitting on the fence. Its like everyone promises the earth but nobody comes up with even a smidge of what they promise.
In other news, had a totally rubbish weekend.
My electrician turned up and managed to wire the consumer box in wrong so had to get him back on Sunday. My dad has wired the WHOLE house and not made a mistake, the professional comes in and can't wire the consumer box.
Then I had to wait on Sunday for the contact centre to give me a call to talk about LG's upcoming supervised contact with dad. Guess what, she forgot about me, half an hour I waited before calling her back. Arrrgh.
Worse still, I have offered contact on a Saturday afternoon (or Sunday anytime). Guess what, father of the year arranged it for 10am. Despite us agreeing in court that it was for AFTERNOONS and my solicitor telling his that we wanted afternoons for daughter's club she attends. Sorry, but it really winds me up. WHY does he have to be so difficult. The woman at the centre said that he very clearly asked for the mornings and didn't want the afternoons.
What's the point of this order when he can't even follow the simplest of instructions?
Then, I was running late because of that and managed to visit 3 swimming pools to try and take daughter to and each one was closed or over subscribed, so took her bowling, bowling was fully booked, wanted to play on the arcades, the till wasn't giving money and the machines weren't working. So we ended at teh cinema.
Sounds like a long list of infuriating things, and none more so than your ex's behaviour about the contact. I imagine it is because you have asked for afternoons that he has insisted on mornings, as in "she's not telling me what to do", forgetting that that is what the court has said.
Hope you had a decent time at the cinema after all that hassle!!!!!
It was ok. Turbo... daughter liked it... Samuel L Jackson has a fab voice even now :-) Although, we really wanted to go swimming.
Even more frustrating, I've had the mediation people on the phone asking me to attend the single parents course TOMORROW. I pointed out that i worked full time and she said to me "it is court ordered". Yep, well aware of that. But, my order states that it needs to be done by 1 April.
According to the silly moo, it needs to be done within 1 month of the order (my solicitor never told me this - actually said I could hold off until January to do it). My issue is if Dad doesn't do it (which he won't - he's not complied with anything to date) why should i do it ... I've complied with everything and I'm getting sick of him bending EVERY rule to suit. Especially when its not me that has the issues - its him - the contact centre time being a perfect symbol of why we never come to any agreement on anything.
So i now need to find a babysitter because I've got to do it next Saturday, forget about my elderly grandad that I clean and look after at the weekend, my daughters club she attends, my shopping, ironing or washing and my plasterer that I've got coming round. I asked if they had a creche there, nope, they don't. Why would they. Its not like single people that attend parent courses would possibly need to have a creche while they are in parenting classes is it?!?!
And, even though I agreed to next Saturday, she still doesn't understand why I can't do it tomorrow or next Thursday. I tried to point out, without shouting, that I work FULL TIME, and I've used all my annual leave on court appearances, cafcass meetings, hospital appointments, Dr appointments, school holidays, oh, and one holiday for my daughter - her first holiday abroad (during school holiday time). Shock horror. Its now October, given that my annual leave runs January - December I've physically run out of time. Am I really being that unreasonable asking to do it in January?!?!?!
Anyway, on that rant I'm off to the gym to see if i can shift my big stress head of a headache
How ridiculous not to have a childcare facility when it is for parents!!!! And very short notice I agree,
Hope the gym helped.
Hi Everyone!
Well, contact finally happened this weekend. It feels like such a long time ago (June) since we had that first contact order with supervised contact, then the second order. So in a way it was a relief that it finally happened.
Dad had promised her a birthday present on the phone back in July and that he was going to bring lots of toys with him for them to play (last monday).
He was meant to ask what she'd like for lunch (this didn't happen). The supervised place that we are using are trying to get a relationship going so that dad talks to her and to me so that there is no need for court in the future.
So, day of the session, we turn up 10 minutes early dad's not there. His car is, but he's not.
We walk daughter around the centre, introduce her to the different rooms etc and she's all ready to meet dad. He turns up 5 minutes late, with an unwrapped present (clearly bought from tescos on the way) and a carrier bag of food. No extra toys as promised.
The carrier bag is full of chocolate and sugary sweets - apparently that's what every 5 year old wants to eat for lunch. So, after looking at the "back up plan" (a packed lunch i made identical to her school lunchtime box that i provide her with) it was decided that "mummy only gives you healthy food, maybe you should eat that". Hmmmm. isn't mummy mean, only providing healthy well balanced food that improves daughters moods because she's not on a sugar rush all the time and has lovely teeth that dont need fillings etc...
A card was given to say happy birthday... the envelope states "MY DAUGHTER" in capitals (it got screwed up and left in the lunchbox, charming) on the front of the card again it is filled with "for my daughter" the card contains a poem. its one of those cards that you buy when someone is depressed and needs some moral guidance - telling my daughter to "worship her family, do what is ethically right, reach for her dreams" - it was 2 pages long. Remember, daughter is 5... and father has never worshipped his family or done what was ethically right. Pious git
In it he'd written how much he missed her. He apparently told her 5/6 times that he missed her, he tried to smother her with hugs and kisses, daughter hates cuddles and kisses - only when she decides to give them does she want them.
Dad in fact missed her SO much that he took me to court, didn't comply with the terms and arranged the contact centres, we went back to court (end of Sept), got a new plan (including the same contat centres) only for him to decide he was away "for a month" (actually 10 days) to Disneyland so I suggested that we started contact afterwards.
I just dont feel like he tries.
Initial reports from the centre suggested that the woman "wanted to shake him" as he had no get up and go, yep, he interacted with DD, but there was no joy there and va va voom.
He cried afterwards. I really dont have any sympathy for the emotional abuse he lays on people anymore... he, and solely he, is responsible for the breakdown of our relationship, for leaving the house, for threatening to hit me, for threatening me with social services, for being verbally abusive, for not seeing his daughter. He only ever had to ASK to see her.
The contact centre also said that they are not sure how he is going to cope with every weekend (it was suggested by cafcass 1 in 3 weekends which the centre actually believes would be better for her).
My poor daughter came out of contact 2 hours later starving, dehydrated and totally out of sorts, because although "he left the lunchbox open", he did not push her to eat any of it so she just nibbled on a sandwich (we have problems with concentration when eating which i had told them). he figured i was making a point and stuck loads of food in there rather than it being what my daughter actually eats - albeit slowly - she usually spends the whole of lunchtime eating.
What was even better, "Dad" wanted to show daughter the pictures of his "month long"/10 day holiday, yep, to Disneyland, obviously only with pictures of him in them...becuase that makes it so much better that you aren't seeing the tart in the pictures and the reason daughter hasn't seen her dad is because you've been saving up to go on holiday, and then you you are on holiday, and you are going to harry potter land (daughter has major obsess on HP) to rub her nose in it that daddy does all these fun things. Arrrrgh
Seriously, I'm not always stressed...
How absolutely infuriating!
The "good" news is that this won't last, things will go one way or another, either they will settle or they will end up being too much for him. What about your daughter, you ask, she is 5 and how about it being too much for HER? and I agree with you but sadly until things play themselves out, it will be all about him for a while (
)
Also the food and drink thing, great that you provided a lunchbox, continue to do that....and do not worry too much about her being "starving and dehydrated"...a child will eat and drink if they really need to.
Glad we are here to let off some steam to, sometimes these things are almost beyond belief aren't they!
Hey everyone.
Well, SD and I have signed our final orders for the contact agreement today. He's been really nice to me the past few months - cringe fully so. He decided he didn't want to partake in the court anymore and wanted to sign it amicably.
He finally put in writing what he wanted out of contact and I tried to expand it so he got some real time for LO ... He agreed to this and his solicitor suggested we write the order. I passed it back to them citing as the applicant he should do this. The result?! He managed to write an agreement that was 20 hours short of contact this year and 60 hours (at least) short for the next 10 years.
I tried to point this out and SD said "oh I scanned the document, it looked ok to me" .... Sorry, approx 14k worth of legal fees and the idiot "scanned" the document. The most important document regarding his child in the whole world and he "scanned" it.
anyway, it got signed today with all the past orders incorporated into it (ie not slagging me off, remaining positive, no gambling etc) whicj I rrequested so it was a complete document. He emails me to tell me it's signed but that he never ever did the stuff I'm "accusing" him off and that I'm the liar. And getting all arsey and rude.
Why do I feel like I've been manipulated again? Granted, I've got a better order (for me) than I offered, but LO is going to lose out on time with SD and the abuse and rubbish starts again. and now, what I'd tried to avoid was us having to negotiate further contact has to happen cos he's too lazy to read the document.
Hi Flapjack,
Well you know the old saying about taking a horse to water but not making it drink. In other words, you cannot control his behaviour. The order is signed now and yes it is disappointing for your daughter but all you can do is work with what you have.
However, there is no need to endure abuse and criticism. Do not respond to rudeness, nor be drawn into any discussions and arguments. If he continues the barrage you need to tell him that you will be going to the police and taking further legal advice.
Hello Flapjack just wondered how you were feeling?
I know you said that your daughter was kicking off and it was a response to stress, I agree with you, I was wondering how she was doing now and if still unsettled whether we could chat about some strategies to help you?