This site is an archive of the OneSpace Forums. Return to forum index.
This site is an archive of the OneSpace Forums. Return to forum index.
Hi all
Just joined and thought i would get some advice.
I have 2 sets of twins first set 5 years and second set 2.
I am sikh guy and mother is english. we both hada relationship for about 18 month before kids came along. rece or religion was not a a issue until kids came along.
Ex partners decided to send kids to a all white chirstian school having changed the original school which i thought was more appropriate as it had alot more balanced religions and race.
there have been issues of racism in the past with certain family members and remarks made infront of kids.
went to court to change of school to a more multifaith school as it would be better for kids. judge made a order against me. same Judge awarded me joint custody 2 months later.
Even though i had loads of evidence that school sayiing it would be bad for kids to goto the school as it would socailly islolate them.
social services became involved after i won joint custody as my ex made a malicious allegation that i burned my kids with a ciggerette end (i dont smoke).
in the investigation report they highlighted the identitiy issues in future regarding religion as i am opposed to school and she is opposed to my religion.
now my kids are rejecting me and have made comments such as "i dont want to be brown".
i would like some advice about how to handle this complex situation.
thanks in advance
Hello dad of twins and welcome along
Am I right in saying that the children still live mainly with their mum despite the joint residence? If so then this I guess was a factor in the school choice. However, it does seem more sensible to me that they should be in a school that reflects a more diverse range of cultures and creeds...but then I am not a Family Court Judge!
As for saying they "don't want to be brown", try not to take this to heart although it is very hurtful. They are only little and they are just trying to find their identity….harder in an all-white school, I imagine. When you have time with them then do concentrate on keeping them in touch with their roots from your culture. Read these helpful articles here (click) and here.
If the children persist in rejecting that part of themselves, and therefore you, then do get some specialist legal advice as to whether allegations of parental alienation are appropriate.
thanks
my kids mother wont listen to reason, she has her little sisters going to the same school (ex's mother got remearried and decided to have more children) who have been calling me names to them at school e.g your dad is poo colour. words have been said and she has admitted it but denied it to other people.
i have thought about the parental alienation as my kids told me that they are not allowed to speak punjabi at there mums house.
sad times
hi would ur kids b better in school where there is mixed race, black in tht school instead of all white school, in all white school they wil b picke don, shame but thts wot goes on nowadays
Yes, I agree with you kiera, and that is also what dadoftwins is fighting for, I do think it is worth having a word with your solicitor if it continues
hi i self represented my case but had a barrister for the specific issue order for change of school even though i had a good barrister and my evidence was good for change of school, the judge took 7 days to give us a verdict. i have been told that i have to stick to the order by solictors who think i am being petty.
there are not many organisations out there that can offer me advice on this issue sadly.
I only want them to have a balanced up bringing thats all
Hello again, I was wondering if you had had any support from any of the dads' organisations? Here is one I think is very informative
hi
i am a member of Families need fathers and often help guys out to self represent like doing statements and case law. but mine is a pretty unique case as parents are opposing each other in religion and as school is church of england and kids are dual heritage.
im sorry but ur member of families of justice, u probably are bein petty like the solicter said, aint commenting any further
no families need fathers not families of justice never heard of them. how am i being petty. if i am worried about my kids growing up confused
Hi there dadoftwins and welcome to our forums, what a difficult situation for you and also for your children.
Have you spoken to their school? I think it is important for the school to be supporting your children with their identity. They could invite some Sikh members of the community to their assembly or the year 6's do a project that the whole school talks about?
The comments that your ex's sisters children made are not ok and this needs to be dealt with by the school if the parent is not prepared to discuss it with you.
I am a full believer of parents speaking in their native tongue to their children, although I have to admit I don't think that I would really like it if my children spoke to each other in a language that I don't understand, that would feel odd. Try not to dwell on this too much, when the children are with you there may be behaviour that you won't allow either, it won't damage the children.
How often do you have them?
the school has basically fobbed me saying they understand and the children are important to them but i have seen them slowly strip them of there identity of mixed race by them praying twice a day and talking about jesus. i dont have a problem with that if the mother was teaching them. but it seems they just want to make sure the kids leave the school as good chritians only. i have pointed this out to them but they are denying it saying that they have kids from other cultures. the school has 102 children in school and 98 of them are white. the kids schooling s suffering as they are behind for that age.
also they have lied on the amount of times my ex has taken them in late as i now of at least 3 occasion when the kids have arrived a hour late for school.
i asked the school to remove them from collective worship but they wont.
i went to the assembly and they talked about china to show they were opena bout the outside world and that was a joke i am sure of better ways they could talk about the different faith more better.
i am sending social services a letter on friday to ask if it appropraite for a school to slowly assimilate kids in this way. contacting a few organisations this morning to see what i can do
u dont seem happy ur ex as moved on, in my sons school he is 11, catholic school, there are 2 black kids in there,thts it, all white wot hell does it matter eh, leave um b for god sake,
kiera
Its not a issue if my ex has moved on, we are both happy to be seperated and have been for 2 years. the problem is she is trying her hardest to bring them up in one culture and i think that is not right and its not fair on them to be marginlised from one culture because she dont like it.
the area they live in is a pretty racist area, the school they goto is as isloated as it gets. on the first day i was there one parent told me that he refers to the school as the a school for the master race. am i supposed to be not be worried about it and just leave them there.
Hi dad of twins I do agree with you that you have a real concern and it is not petty to want your children to have a sense of their own roots and culture. once they are adults they can decide whether to become Christians or to embrace Sikhism, but at the very least they need to know about both.
Families Need Fathers do a lot of great work. It does seems strange that your case is so unusual as there are so many families where cultures and faith is mixed these days so you would have thought this was happening a lot. Sorry that I feel we are not being much help here.
How much of the time do you have care of the children?
I am the mother of a mixed race child and the truth is it doesnt matter where they go they will always come across small minded people, us as parents can not protect them from this and it was a choice we made. All we can do is not bubble wrap them (as hard as it is) and keep reminding them they r no different
Hi dadoftwins, good luck with finding out more info, may I suggest you contact ACE Education Advice (they have a helpline).
i understand that you want to get this sorted, however I am not sure that social services will be able to do anything here.
Has communication completley broken down between you and your ex now? If not, how about trying to have a discussion about the childrens identity and wellbeing, as I am sure it is important to her too.
With regards to your ex getting the children to school late on a number of occassions, as a single parent myself with only one child, I can assure you this is not unusual, especially if she has 4 small children to round up! This is a very differnet matter to the school issue and religion.
Do you take the children to the sikh festivals or to gurdwarah?
social services have been involved since march after my ex accused me of hurting one of my babies after i won joint custody. social services invetigated and there was child protection meeting but it was downgraded to child in need and there was futher investigation on my child care skill for which social services said there was no issue and no need to be involved. although they did write that the kids would be socially isolated and that could lead to futher problems in the future over identity.
As for her coming late to school, its not that she is coming late its the fact the head teacher has lied to me about it and when asked for a official report on attendence and latness she also lied on it too i think it is called a heringbow report.
i take them to the gudwara but since they started they started to play up and say they dont want to go and last week said he didnt want to learn the language
It is a difficult time for the children dadoftwins, they are only small, however obviously very aware of all the disputes that have been going on around them in the adult world.
At this point all they need to know is that they are safe. Perhaps the next few times you have them, don't mention religion or school or mummy, they have their whole lives to figure out what they believe and who they want to be, just enjoy their company and have some fun?
i find it hard to agree with that if they attend a religous school they are being made to side line my religion in favour of another, my kids are starting to feel conflicted. if i stop and let them carry on in that school then whats next then. them getting baptised, slowly on that school they wont have anything in common religously or traditionally with me. the school dosent celerbrate other faiths like eid or divali or vasakhi.
i wouldnt be so bothered about religion if they were at a normal school thats had many faiths.
I feel as if you are doing everything you can at the moment, the Uk law is really unclear about this matter and it is left up to the courts to decide with "the child's welfare being paramount" and of course this is a random phrase. Myself I would have thought that the wishes of the parent with whom the child spends the majority of the time would be favoured by the courts, which is why both Anna and I have asked you how much time they spend with you.
Did you contact ACE as Anna suggested?
i have them week 1 thursay to sunday
week 2 thursday to saturday
week 3 thursday to sunday
week for i get 3 hours on a thursday which will be challenged
holidays are split half
im not meanin to b harsh but cud u just let them b,
i thought about that but if a school is suppressing there mixed heritage i dont think i can do that
if u saw the evidence i had i doubt you would be saying it
Hi dadoftwins, it seems that you have a good amount of time with them, so I am sure they are getting lots of your influences in their lives too.
I am also sure that you are not bad mouthing their school or its Christianity either. You could raise discussions with them, ask them what their assembly was about, discuss the kind of things you did in school at their age.
I live in a large city so multiculturalism is high on everyones agenda, however I am guessing you are in a smaller school. I think it is important that the school your children go to recognise all faiths. Would you consider going to a parent governor meeting to raise your concerns?
i have raised all my concerns with the school i am not bad mouthing the school at all but it seems to me they are trying to vring my kids up as schristians and i am opposed to that. i have been to assembly. the fact is that 5 days at a christian school is not that balanced is it really. and i dont think the 4th week in every contact rotation is fair niether 3 hours is a bit of a joke really but i havent done anything about it as yet as i am waiting to de decide to go back to court about removing them from school.
but i have got the impression that i should leave them there and let them be forced to be good christian children and forget about my heritage being passed to them.
I find it difficult to know what to suggest here. My children have been through issues with regards to religion, in that the other parent became a born again christian (lower case letters used deliberately) but was totally extreme. It has had a huge effect on my children, with the result that two are now athiest.
They know I believe.
Now they are getting on a bit (my youngest is now 14, and my oldest is 21 - this happened 9 years ago), I find they are asking questions and finding their own way. I was lucky as I had a lot of support from the headmaster at the primary school.
I do think that Anna's post has good suggestions.
I hope you have a great time with the children while they're with you as they do grow up so quickly.
Hi dadoftwins, it sounds as though all of this is making you feel very cross, which is not good for you or your children.
Your children are living in a predominantly christian country and if they don't live in a large city, then it is normal for primary schools to have assemblies, talk about Easter and the 10 commandments etc. However it is not as prevalent in senior schools unless you were to choose a Christian senior school, so for the time being it will all be very gentle, in the same way I would presume your teachings of Sikh ways?
All religions promote honesty, consideration, thoughtfulness, care in the community, so in one sense they are learning to be respectable members of society and as long as you are in their lives, you will be having an influence on their thought processes too.
As sparklinglime says, they will come to their own conclusions as they get older, they are dual heritage, so are lucky enough to learn about sikhism in a way that others would never get the chance.
Do your children see your extended family? Your parents, sisters, cousins?
not cross just resigned to the fact maybe that whilst in a christian school the only influence they will get are from white christian friends and white christian teachers they wont see any black or asian role models from other faiths will they. there mother dosent promote the dual heritage and the rest of the family have problems with briatains immagration policies.
it dosent matter now i guess i have got my answer this country is not that multicultured is it really as anna put it is it " predominantly christian country " maybe we are not that equal after all
what is wrong with ur kids bein a good school, seems likje good school and christian school, they wil learn where they cum from by bein with u alot,my kids are in catholic school, but we are all catholic,why wud they forget bout their heritage its upto u where they get tht from isnt it
im afraid while u are in this country u av to go by our rules, sorry if tht sounds harsh
and i cant believe u was even considerin takin ur children out of good school, just cos ur not happy with it, how wud ur kids feel ur not even thinkin bout ur kids, its all bout u,
you say it all actually as long as we are in this country live by your rules. the kids are are not doing well at the good school you are talking about.
your comments have made me feel like i am doing the right thing.
it is harsh, are we only accepted as long as we live like you and no diffrent sounds like a EDL member
lol no i am not edl, but u want ur kids to b like u, wot bout the mum as well,
i have bin thru alot, my long thread on here is called on edge, i am bein truthfull, sounds like its all bout u
no i am no sayin i want them to be like me.
I am saying they should have a more balanced upbringing and they wont be getting that at a Christian school thats it basically.
maybe a more mixed faithless school should be better
if mum wants to teach them about christianity then let her i dont want a school to do that i want a school to educate them
Well said Kiera :)
well its not all about me and it may seem all about me just like it would seem all abuout mum changing schools with out telling me
well sound slike u aint gona get ur way, takin kids out of good school do them more harm than good, take it u want the control eh,even the judge didnt agree with u, think bout ur kids stop bein selfish
why wudnt they get balanceed upbringin in good christian school, u teach um bout ur faith then .b a dad,
You say you don't want them to be like you?
strange as up thread you said
"I find it hard to agre with that if they attend a religiosity school they are being made to sideline my religion for another"
theres nothing wrong with them being like you that's what it's all about isn't it bit theres a balance and the child's best interst taken into account you need to consider that.
i got joint custody because my xontroling ex would not let me be a dad. that is such a petty put down. is this discussion come down to that. sorry to be different. mixed heritage + one faith school dosent not = balanced in my view.
i went to the school assembly and all the kids were praying except the parent. it seems to me the parents only take them to that school because there to lazy to be parent and teach them chritianity.
kiera also the kind of mum my kids have got is the type who gets them to pick her fag ends of the floor and dosent brush there teeth.
the best interest is not in a religous school
oh so she is the controllin one, yeah right, il bet my bottom dollar tht its u tht the conmtrollin one, i was in a very controllin relationship. so dont cum tht with me,my eldest son is in a strict cathol;ic school where they pray.i pray when i go to a assembly, i dont go to church tho, my ex called me summat rotten but he was control freak, he sounds like u
is your wish for them to attend a religious free school?
yes
actually i was not the controlling one kiera. she was the controlling onw teling when and were i could see my kids or who they could talk to. they wasnt allowed to meet some family members untill the court order.
which friends i could see and i couldnt watch certain tv programs lol
its funny when i went to court all the men there were controlling alcholics drug addicts.
i am helping a guy who is self representing himself and he is just a kid all of a sudden he is controlling to and agressive he wouldnt hurt a fly.
the controlling card gets played alot in court
well thts why my ex isnt allowed coantact at all with his dawter, and thts thru court, which by way as bin goin on a year now, cafcass and judge saw thru him, thank god
I believe that any children have a right to chose if they go by a religion or not i also think they need to know we're they come from and have knowledge available of any faith if they wish,
i hate the idea of it being forced upon another person as a child grows they should have freedom to choose.
it sounds to me like you wish them to attend a non religous school to teach them your religion and not both As you don't speak to kindly of their mother.
i hope you can find some piece in teaching your children about your faith and were they come from in a relaxed way you may find they come back to you for more.
I really don't know what to say. I'm not commenting about the school issue, but on the comments that the children are making. They cannot change who they are.
I'm sure some practical and helpful suggestions will be put forward.
It's really sad that you're having to deal with this.