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Sorry, me again, offloading...
Trouble with my youngest. Bedtimes. Anger. Attitude/Answering back. Struggling at school.
I find it hard with him, i'm over protective of him, i know that much. Of both my boys really but more with my youngest. If my partner steps in i defend and protect, i don't want to see my partner lose his temper like he does with his own, i don't want to listen to him belittle or criticize my boys. I can't let him in, i don't trust him 100% with my children, he's so hit and miss with them, best friends one minute and mr grumpy the next, not so much with my eldest his new best mate, but my youngest gets a rough deal from him.
My youngest does his upmost to please him and is never sure what reaction he'll get from my partner. My eldest can say anything to my partner and my partner will be like a best mate to him.
I want to be firm and fair with my children, i strive to do so, but i end up snappy, angry, especially with my youngest at bedtime, we end up arguing, its silly, because i know i can deal with the situation differently, i know what i wish to be doing and saying. It's just dawned on me that I'm afraid to though, afraid that my partner will gloat and be like 'I told you so, I told you you need to be firmer, that they get away with too much', and afraid he'll take over and undermine me.
What a sorry old mess. Being afraid of just being me, being afraid of parenting the way i know how to, the way i want to for fear of being seen as weak, can't cope etc..
I don't know where the hell all this ha come from. I was plodding along and one incident from my partner, when he launched with such venom at my youngest, was enough to allow something just to snap inside me. I can't explain any of this to my partner, i feel so angry, i feel... i don't know how i feel. My partner as far as i can see thinks this is a blip, a bad point, that it can be fixed. He feels no different towards me. But i feel so very different towards him.
I feel cross with myself, 7 years and i still don't feel comfortable, happy, secure etc.. 7 years and things should be great, right? 7 years and in the space of a few months (nearly - since i started this post i guess) i feel so very distant from my partner. I thought i could make this work, alone. I thought i could help him to understand.
Thanks for listening.. Again :-(
Dear midgymoo
We are always here to listen.
You are going through a pretty dramatic emotional process at the moment..and it is hard to accept that things may not have been ideal for seven years. You can ask yourself how you did not realise this before, and wonder if the last seven years have been a bit of a waste. No experience is ever really wasted as we learn and grow from everything.
As for your youngest...what would you do if you were the only adult in the house?
Hi. Just needing to talk.
My boys have jsut gone off to their dads for the weekend, and i always feel naff when they go. Thing is when we were walking home from school a short while ago my oldest said that he doesn't like his dad, coz he smokes too much, swears too much and does nothing with him and his brother, and then said that he wishes that my partner was his dad as he does more with him and hes not a bad guy once you get to know him.. I didn't know what to say, i feel extremely torn in all directions at the moment. I play piggy in the middle with my ex husband and my boys, arranging everything to suit the boys first and foremost and accomodating their dads wishes. Now i feel like i've been slapped with a wet fish when my oldest said the above. Now what am i meant to do if this is how my oldest feels. My youngest gets cross with his dad for the same reasons but he wishes his dad and i were together and not my partner and i.
As for my partner, in my head i'm pretty much certain i want to move out, i'm fed up, have had enough of the mind games etc.. I haven't yet sat down with him to tell him that actually i agree with what he said the other week about me moving out coz he thinks counselling will be a quick fix and i'll still be unhappy. What person who loves you so much would say what he said regarding counselling. He sits back and lets me get on with it. When he wants to talk its about how he feels that i'm treating him like a second class citizen and not showing him any affection. And, hes stepping in whenever i'm dealing with my boys now and taking over. Sometimes he even apologises for doing so after hes 'dealt' with it. Or, i have asked my boys to do something and then he asks them to do something else and 'then' checks with me if its ok!! E.g. 'boys time for bed' and partner asks 'boys come and look at this its the olympic torch relay live', 'is that okay mummy' he asks me and when i say i was getting them to bed, he apologises and leaves me with two whinging children on my hands, 'mummy thats so unfair, he said we could...' !!!!!!
I'm at a loss. When the ex arrived to pick the boy up i was in a miserable mood (still am). I'd been snapping at my boys (our boys), today and for most of the week. I've been cross, very tearful and all in front and with my boys. They don't need to see me like this, though i do apologise and try to explain how i'm feeling in the simplist of terms, then i hug them a big hug. Don't like being 'that' mummy to my boys, i know i can be better. Anyway, the ex hubby is just as bad as the partner, you talk and it may as well be to a brick wall. I wanted last night so much to talk to my partner about my youngests bedtime woes, but i knew that would be pointless, and i try today with the ex and thats pointless too. The only person i can talk to is my dad and mum. Poor parents are getting all my crap at the moment.
Been house hunting all week to no avail and am getting peed off with letting agents that say they will call you back or email you to arrange a convienient time for viewing etc, only for me to call back over a few days and when i finally get hold of them the properties are let! So, not moving anytime soon.
I feel very much trapped, well thats how i feel today anyway. This week has been totally pants! Not managed to get away or book anything as things are snapped up so quick or the boys have something on and i love to go watch and support them at their events.
Loads of hugs.
I'm glad you have our parents there to listen though. I think that's invaluable.
Not a lot you can say to your boys really when they say things about their Dad, perhaps he loves you and that's just how he is...
Trying to find a place to let is so unbelievably hard. I hope you have some joy soon.
Of course you want to do the best for your boys. But living just the three of you means you can still have a relationship with your partner if that is what you want. Please don't allow everyone to push and pull you in all directions, it is what is best for YOU too.
As for the properties, don't take "I will ring you back" for an answer, be assertive, say no I am busy later, I need to get this sorted now, is a viewing available at 6pm tomorrow? (or whatever) Keep your name and requirements in the forefront of these agents' minds....come on, you can do this midgymoo and it will put you in charge instead of always having to worry about other people! Hurrah for you! 
This is what i have written to him:
I want you to be able to understand that I do love you very much, but I’ve lost the feeling of being in love.
I need space right now, I’ve reached a point in my life where I’ve things I need to work out, questions I need to answer, to understand where I am going. Yes, it’s come out of the blue; it’s probably built over the years, a combination of frustrations, anger, rose tinted glasses, regret or perhaps resentment, lots of emotions and feelings. Yes, I have been looking at myself long and hard over the last few years. So right now I seem to have reached this particular point of ‘what am I doing?’ and ‘why?’. Right now I need to do something for me, what’s right for me. Mid life crisis perhaps, yes, silly as it may seem.
I’m not saying everything is your fault because its not, I have my part to play in all of this too for my own reasons of which you may not fully understand.
I want to be affectionate, I want to hug and kiss, but when I feel that I want to not because I feel I have to, like it’s a requirement of me. I don’t want to feel pressured into anything I can’t give you right now. I feel that if I get involved (sexually) then I am drawn in by emotion and fooling myself and you that everything is okay and then the real issues between us or not dealt with, or the real issues I have with us are not dealt with. It complicates things. I’d be happy to hug and kiss and show affection, but at the moment please don’t expect any more from me, and there are no quick fixes so please be patient if you really want this relationship to work too.
I need to be sure that what I am doing is right and feels right for me. I know what I would like in life, its taken many weeks to work it out – of which many may seem so simple but mean a lot to me, and I would like to know what you would like in life. Perhaps we can talk about this and go from there, we may need help with it and maybe that’s where the counsellor can come in useful. I don’t know the answers, I just know what I’d like. I don’t know if moving out is the right answer to be able to work on this or if we can do this here together with help, that’s something to decide on. Now that you’ve read this, what are your thoughts?
So we'll see
WOW, midgeymoo. Sounds really clear to me!
Well done for taking a step back to think about what you want from the situation, and for saying what you feel is going on for you.
I know exactly what you mean with regard to 'being an individual within a couple'. it can be really hard when the line between being you and being someone's partner becomes blurry. I hope the One Space life coaching course continues to be useful for you.
We're here for you on the boards - let us know what kind of response you get to your letter to your partner and how you're getting on in general.
Mary
Good luck with this midgeymoo. It does sound as if he want's thing to be a "we" situation rather than on his own. Hopefully he can work through this with you.
Hi midgymoo
I am not surprised you feel in a bubble. The talk that you had sounds....almost unemotional. I suppose if it was me I would have been expecting my partner to be very voluble and emotional.
You're doing everything you can, and your feelings will become clear as you move forward 
I’ve been thinking (a lot) again today…
My partner says he loves me. It is very easy for one partner to say that they ‘love’ the other person, however words are easy to say, but how do I feel that love from him?. The actions are, as it were, the proof of the pudding and they underpin the words. When we look after someone else, we are I feel I am giving him what he needs and wants, not what I want to give him (does that make sense?).
I don’t feel as loved as the day I met him, I feel inferior to him. When we met I felt like an equal, now I don’t. Once my partner had got what he wanted – me – things appeared to change, meals out became less frequent, I visited him at his dad’s a lot of the time as I was working in his home town (though still living 30 min drive away), I began to work my life around him, it was easy for him, he appeared to become lazy and made less effort. I still put effort in – picnics out, nights in, all planned and lovingly prepared to share with him and he lapped it up. Once we moved in together, he’d run me a bath, I persuaded him to learn to cook and eventually after a few years he began cooking once a week. As time went on, I began to feel less of a partner and more of a teacher (or mother), helping to approach situations calmly, learning to cook, helping to think through things regarding work and his ex, I was a shoulder to hold on to, I gave a lot. In return there may have been something, like a meal out, a cinema trip, a nice birthday treat but nothing that really stands out as being especially for me. After 3 or 4 years of it, I gradually started to withdraw into my shell, I became depressed and down most of the time, I sought to find out why I felt this way as I didn’t like it, I had counseling, hypnotherapy/analysis, CBT etc.. it was difficult and I had very little support from A when working my way through it all. He saw it as me not liking him and not wanting to be with him, he got clingy, I didn’t like this side of my partner, not at all strong but reliant on me for everything. It’s nice that he still finds me attractive, that’s good to know, but it makes me squirm too. Being close and making love, two things that I initially came to enjoy have slowly receded away over the years, now the mere thought makes me think of just another thing he wants from me. I now feel that all I do is for him, to meet his needs. I work my children and my job around him, I work my social life (what there is left of it) around him. And I kick myself every time I put him before my children, every time I snap at my children. I hug and kiss him because he wants me to not because I feel like it, I feel pressured to do so. And making love got to the point of doing it because he wanted to, and I drew the line there. Enough.. I want to do these things because I want to, but I’m not. I went counseling etc because I thought it was all me, I needed to sort myself out for him. How silly of me…
Regarding my boys…
Both my boys understand that partner’s children are allowed to one thing and that they must do something different. They also understand that my partner can do something but that they mustn’t copy him. They know he and his children don’t set good examples at times. Both my boys, but mostly my youngest will come to me and mention, ‘……… does so and so but I’m not allowed to, why can’t I but he can?’
My youngest is aware that my partner’s anger is not a good thing, and at these times he says that my partner is not a nice person and that he makes him feel upset and cry.
My oldest likes my partner, and says he wishes that my partner was his Dad because my partner does things with him. He has things in common with my oldest and finds it easy to bond, also my oldest is quite laid back so my partner finds him easy to get on with as he will do what he asks, therefore no friction.
Things can only really change for the better if my partner is really committed to taking responsibility for his behaviour I at time find frightening, undermining and controlling. But if he is not in a place to acknowledge the effect of his behaviour on those around him, then I need to start thinking about what is best for me and my boys.
My ideal relationship would see me with someone who supports me, is caring and kind, is thoughtful, treats me as an equal and loves me unconditionally.
Does my partner meet these ideals?
Supportive – A supports me by helping me to take my boys to school and picking them up from school. If I have a problem, he may stop to listen but then steps in to tell me what to do, how to do it and what I’m doing wrong, and all I want to be is heard. When dealing with misbehaviour I feel unsupported.
Caring and Kind – He can be, when he wants something, when he doesn’t get what he wants he can get sulky, may criticize, my become off with me. Or he goes over the top and offers to do everything appearing hurt when I say no thank you.
Thoughtful – A tends to speak first and then thinks after. He can with thought plan nice surprises e.g. birthday treat
Equal – He cooks once a week, and loads/unloads the dishwasher/washes up some nights. Mostly the house and home is my domain. I work too though, I look after the family/children, feed all and clothe my own etc.. It’s not equal. If I mention it, then I am being unfair and not thinking of him..
Unconditional love – I’m not sure about this one. A loves me, desires and lusts after me etc… I feel that I have to be someone I’m not for him to love me. I have to be happy 24/7 and tend to his needs. He says he loves me, but I feel a whole lot more has to come with that before he is satisfied.
Thanks again..
Hi
Personally, I wouldn't even be thinking about what the ideal relationship would be. Firstly you need to know what you want/don't want from this one, and move on to where you want to be.
Things can be lovely and rosy for a while (I had quite a happy 18 months with the 'friend' who is now pushing it), but things settle down into a routine. I don't think the going out for meals and the 'nice' bits can last. Life gets in the way when bills and routine takes over. Perhaps this is where being in love becomes comfortable love?
Is it possible to be happy 24/7? I don't know if that is possible.
Unconditional love - I think this is something we may have for our children. And possibly something we have from our parents. When it comes to having this from a partner, I'm a cynic I'm afraid.
Seeing I've been awake for a couple of hours I thought I'd throw some things in the pot to think about. It's horrid when your mind goes round and round. And hard when you can't find the answers you'd like to find.
Hi midgymoo, this is a really thoughful and reflective piece of writing and I hope it has been helpful for you. I agree with sparkling that the nice meals out bit rarely lasts and that we cannot be happy 24/7. However, I think it IS worth thinking about your ideal relationship....or at least your minimum requirement, it helps you sort out what is important to you.
For me, this was the most significant part of your post:
Things can only really change for the better if my partner is really committed to taking responsibility for his behaviour I at time find frightening, undermining and controlling. But if he is not in a place to acknowledge the effect of his behaviour on those around him, then I need to start thinking about what is best for me and my boys.
It is indeed about him taking responsibility
Still in deep thought.
With regards to my needs being met, i guess i am the one to meet my needs, i can't expect him to do that. I think i have been putting so much effort into meeting everyone elses needs that i have forgotten how or stopped meeting my own.
The issue really is that i don't want to change him, i want his attitude and behaviour to change. I'd like him to hear me rather than just listen, i'd like him to just let me get things off my chest without telling me what to do, like i do for him. I'd like him to set a good example for my boys, his children by being a good role model and expecting the children to do as he does, not what he says and then doing something completely different himself. I'd like him to take more responsibilty for his behaviour as oppose to passing blame onto everyone else. I'd like him to let me in on some of the descions made about the home and let me in on his 'plans'.
We're talking again this eve, i want to tell him what i'd like.
This is all so very difficult.
Maybe, i've just fallen out of love. Maybe he just doesn't float my boat anymore. I had a great after school/evening with my boys today, and my partner wasn't on the scene until late and stayed out of my way.
I'm dreading his children arriving at the weekend. They demand so much attention even at the ages they are, and they seek to achieve it with misbehaviour (the 18yr old lad) and placing blame on the others. Whinging and whining (the 10 yr old girl) - he did this, she did that, its not fair etc. Tantruming and sulking (the 15 yr old girl). It drives me nuts, but they only do it i guess through lack of positive attention from my partner and his ex. I do try to put it all to one side and try to get involved but when i have my own boys to parent, clubs and activities to go to, along with cooking and homelife to consider, plus difference in behaviour management, i get pretty worked up and stessed out.
I am finding everything about my partner annoying at the moment from his bloody nail biting (gnawing more like), to his hour in the bathroom every morning and his speed eating... I could go on.
Meant to be talking, but can't seem to manage it tonight, little hesitant to tell him what i want to or need to do because he'll tell me i am doing it, he is doing it or its been done and we know it works...
I really can't seem to give him what he wants right now, closeness. The more he goes on about it, the more i feel distant and pull away further.
Better go try talk..
How do you know if love is whats still holding you together? How do you know if its just something other than that? Sorry if i'm not making any sense, its not making any to me really.
I had told him, as i said, that i can hug and kiss but give no more and will do so when i feel like doing so. I think i mentioned before, the other day, that he told me he'd let me lead the way but that please could i try harder and give him more.
Well hes pushing me, asking me to sit near him, for hugs and kisses, entwining himself around me as i sleep (well try to sleep!). I just don't feel like returning the affection, it seems to have left me. Though i do have the extremely occasional fleeting urge to want to hug him or sit near him, and i hold back.
I'm struggling again, one minute i'm straight in my head, the next i'm all awry again with questions and thoguhts and wondering what the hell i'm doing, i feel like that this morning.
It's so hard and I say again about the Venus Mars thing...he thinks that physical contact will make you closer but his desire for this is actually pushing you further away.
The situation with his children's visit is looming again and there is a lot on your plate.
Any luck with the house-hunting? Whether you decide to stay with your partner or not (in terms of a relationship) I feel sure that a move will be beneficial
I did mention the Venus Mars thing to him, as in 'you want physical contact to get close, i want emotional connection to get close and we are clashing, along with speaking different dialogues we have a recipe for disaster' (hence the counselling idea) and it was like i was from Venus full stop, it blew over him like a cloud on a windy day.
I do have a lot on my plate when i think about it, my contract at work ends = no income, i'm desparately job hunting to find something to keep me afloat and i can't claim benefits as my partner earns too much. My eldest is not wanting to see his dad so i gotta speak to the ex, i'm worried i'm asking alot of my parents right now emotionally, i'm having probs on with my youngest with school and bedtimes. Boy, can i whinge... Its just alot to deal with in one go and to top it off, trying to work out this relationship.
Been trying to whittle things down this morning. Before i go on, thats another thing, the more i'm putting into working out this relationship the less focus i have on my boys and perhaps thats why things are difficult as a parent. Anyway, back to whittling things down.
I had a rethink on what i feel the biggest issues are:
Children - the way in which my partner handles behaviour i don't agree with. I'm fed up of him stepping in and taking over a situation therefore undermining me. I fed up with the whole 'do as i say, not what i do' attitude. I'm fed up with his eldest child getting away with everything just because 'hes a teenager', 'young adult' or whatever excuse is used. And i'm sure on the odd occasion when he looks after my boys he uses the 'well i'm not your mum and shes not here so you'll do what i tell you to' as my youngest has told me what Andrew tells them to do and it doesn't follow or back up anything i do!
Finance - I don't wish to be told that i'm not helping enough financially or that i need to look at spending less when my partner is out there playing golf, eating out with his mates, buying stuff for the garden, and when his business is going through changes. I do my best and i'm not blinking stupid!
Communication - hes starting to talk, but still can't hear me if you see what i mean.
Attitude - hes very much likes things his way, and thinks about himself alot - his plans, his ideas, his house, etc.. or a selfish chauvanistic pig as my dad would call him 
Behaviour - he needs to become responsible for it and not place blame in every directon possible. He needs to start being a good role model.
To me these are what matter (the above). I have become, over the years increasingly frustrated with the above as i've tried to talk to him about, well as you have seen from my posts you can see what i've tried.
There i go again, i'm putting him first aren't i, i'm trying to work it out, i'm trying to do whats best, i'm thinking that hes hurt by all this, i'm thinking he won't cope, he'll get angry, i'm thinking everything about him aren't i?
Ok. Its been 4 or 5 years of the same merry go round of emotions, frustration, anger etc for me and even through trying, the above things still haven't changed or they did for a short while and then reverted. With so much going on fro me right now (allbeit not for him - who knows, he doesn't say), space to work things out - feelings, emotions etc - without being in the same vacinity is, your right, probably the best thing.
So anyways, house hunting. Its not going so well, there isn't much where we live at the moment, apart from the appartment i viewed which was lovely but has no outside storage or garden or play space nearby. There are places across town which would mean driving my boys to school every day, which is not ideal, but may well have to be that i opt for that. As for my partners comment way back of 'i just want to see you happy, i'll even help you to find somewhere, move etc if its means you'll be happy', hes just sat back, same as everything else, and let me get on with it. Like most things, if he'll say he'll help, he'll say he wants to be part of the boys life, but hes not interested unless its what he wants and/or he can do it his way.
I'm so fed up of giving in for a quiet life. I'm angry at myself today (again) at having so many other things i need to do, and like everytime over the years, putting them all to one side to work on this relationship, to pacify him. How come i always let my life revolve around him!
I'm now starting to question myself, is my partner all that bad? But then my answer is that it can't be that good otherwise why would the last 4 or 5 years have been so frustrating and at times hurtful and upsetting and whay would the same things that existed then still exist now?
This is your call, midgeymoo. You are the only person who can make the choices that require making here. But you don't sound happy. And you're right, most of your outpourings seem to come back to your partner and what he wants.
Have you considered seeking counselling by yourself? It might help you thrash things out further and decide what is best for you and your children.
I know from bitter experience what it's like not to be heard - even when a partner says they are listening - it is SO frustrating. No wonder you feel like you are chasing your tail. But please, don't apologise for coming onto the forum and letting off steam about your situation - it's what we're here for.
Hugs x x
Thanks. I know its only me who can decide, and i really do appreciate coming on to one space to talk, its most helpful.
I have been having email counselling with Relate, have done 2 email sessions, will prob send another one off tomorrow. Have also been to see my hypnotherapist whom i find it easy to talk to, she listens and poses questions for me to answer myself.
Deep down i know what i really want, its to move, its always been at the forefront of my mind ever since i moved in with my partner. I've changed alot and learnt alot about myself over the years. The decsion i made to move it may have been the right one then, but was based on fear of not doing right by my partner, its what he wanted and what i thought i wanted too. With my rose tinted glasses on and being in 'love' i followed my heart, i thought i could give him what he wanted, the whole family thing, to allow him to be a father figure to my boys. It was a huge leap from single mum with two toddlers to couple with 5 children of varying ages, from me managing my boys behaviour to someone a)parenting different to me and b)taking over. From looking after myself and my boys to looking after everyone. Alot to take on, alot to deal with, alot to come crashing down. Rose tinted glasses soon disappeared once reality hit home. I learnt new things about my partner that i began to dislike or resent about him, things i can't shake off to this day.
So though i know its what i really want and have for a long time now, i'm afraid, scared to move, because i'll hurt him and because i'll hurt the children and his family. Because they won't see it from my point of view. The thing is, having been married, divorced and rebuilding my life before meeting my partner, i was free, i was happy, i was liking myself and was building a future. I see now that actually, i wanted a man in my life to fill a void that was left behind after my divorce. I like being independant and not having a partner dependant on me (my ex and my partner), i like being part of a couple who 'date', i don't wish to get married again and my children at present are my priority. It would be different if my boys were my parters and my children, a whole different board game i think. But they're, not and i want to raise them without feeling i'm doing it all wrong.
Selfish i know, but thats how it is deep down..
Thanks again, prob more to come as i waffle on, but thanks...
You are always welcome here, midgymoo. Many of the things you are saying on here are things you would be exploring in counselling anyway, I am sure you are aware of that.
Did I ever mention to you the book "Women who love too much"? I just hear echoes in your posts that remind me of that book and wonder if you have read it or heard about it? if not then I would recommend that you have a read
Oh joy... Bit of a blown out of all proportion kind of morning this morning. I said the following, I was feeling angry, so prob should have kept my mouth shut...
... Hey midgeymoo,
First of all, I've had to edit your post a little. I've removed the children's names & a couple of PG+ swears that you used. But I understand why you're so angry & why you let that 'get the bettter of you'.
Sometimes when we're in difficult situations & we are weighing up the pros & cons of extricating ourselves (and indeed, what the best way to do that is), it can all just come out in one big 'blurt'. Does this sound like what happened earlier?
Your partner sounds like he's responding to you in a really childish way; 'No I didn't', 'I'm not talking to you now'. So that's another child you've got to deal with!
You contradict yourself a little in your post - first you say 'prob should have kept my mouth shut' yet you finish off by saying 'don't give a s*** coz I've said it and it's out in the open'. Which is truer to what you're feeling?
Louise's book suggestion is a good one. And please don't negate thinking about what you need. It's not 'being selfish' - it's just something you're not used to doing.
Thinking about you x x
Oh my gosh, i'm so sorry about the swearing etc, i was steaming and just typed. Sorry.
I did get a message from him in the end, saying that hes gone out for the day, then is going to his dad's for tea and will be home later.
Its been a difficult day, thankfully my parents came over today to watch my boys at footy so i've not had the chance to mope about which is good.
The truer comment on how i'm feeling, now that i'm calmer, is that i'm glad its been said and out in the open. Its shown me what i thought his reaction would be and has got out what i have really been trying to say allbeit in the bluntest most honest way possible, instead of me trying to fluff it over so as not to hurt anyone.
I need a man, not another child, its a challenge enough raising my two boys, looking after my partners children let alone being the parent to my partner too. I guess now i may be well prepared for my boys teenage years with my 'stropy teenage' partner.
To be honest, hes done this before and has reverted to normal as though nothing has happened after a few days. Except this time, though i feel hurt all the same, i don't feel gut renchingly upset. I've had a few tears out of frustration, but this time i'm not running back to apologise, i'm not sure i have anything to apologise for apart from my anger.
I'm off out with my friends this evening and i'm damn well gonna have fun. I know my boys are well cared for with my parents.
So guess i'll see what happens from here on..
Apologies again for the swearing, and thanks too x
It sounds as though you are closer to making a decision, midgeymoo - no matter how difficult it might be.
No problem re; the swears. Moderating is my job And we're all human.
Have a marvellous time tonight - it's great to know your kids are being well looked after & you can just go out & have fun without worrying, isn't it?
Mary
Well, i had a lovely evening out and i'm so glad my parents were there to help with my boys.
My parents said that my partner turned up back home with his three children at 9.30pm and that he was quite chatty with them.
I got in at gone midnight, partner was still up but in bed. He asked me if i had a nice time and i told him where i went and that it was fun.
On Sunday, my partner was chatting away like nothing had been said, which is exactly what i thought would happen, always does, until he asks me (again) 'whats the matter? Why won't you talk to me, i can tell something is wrong' or 'so what have you been thinking'.
He just can't hear what i'm saying...
Thankfully my parents were over again yesterday (sunday) and we, my parents, my boys, my partner and his three and myself, were out all day at a footy tournament followed by a fun day. My partner was really chatty with me, asking me if i wanted my coat coz i looked cold etc..
So unless i say something, change the situation, say sorry (for what i don't know) then as far as i can see, i'm back on the merry-go-round again. Perhaps its just a game to him? I've told him everything whether he wanted to hear it or not, and i hear the same questions from him and find i'm just repeating myself.
Want to try counselling with him, but i can't really see the point? I could continue to see a counsellor myself, only to cover the same ground. My partner seems to be intent on trying to re-establish the physical and romance side of the relationship and appears to be ignoring everything else thats been said, he keeps coming in for cuddles and kisses. Unless i do all the work in this relationship from re-establishing romance, working on ways to parent jointly, and working on communicating with one another then i don't see things improving. And with everything else on my plate - my children, a degree course, employment or soon to be unemployment, i'm not sure how i'm going to do it alone?
midgey moo, I was cheering you on when I read your post where you completely expressed yourself - ok so you were angry, but you weren't actually saying anything different to what you have been saying time and time again. It just shows me how frustrated you are with everything.
I have been away for 2 weeks and reading todays post I can see that you are back to square one. Well the situation is anyway.
You have been trying to fix things, you are being clear and honest, from what I have read, but your partner is just not hearing you. I know that you are apprehensive of what the future might hold without a partner and every now and again he says something that makes you stop in your tracks. But you will manage - you have great parents that sound as though they will work with you and without all this extra pressure on your plate, you may find that life is a lot easier.
I was thinking about the flats that you saw, especially the one without any outdoor space and wondering if you could take on a short term lease on something that isn't completely ideal and then keep your eye open for something better?
Hi midgeymoo, glad to hear you had a good night out the other night. Sounds like you have kind off made up your mind about where you go from here midgeymoo, it's sounds to me like your just building up the courage to go it alone, you probably know deep down that you can manage really well on your own.
Have you done a pro's and con's list midgeymoo?
It is completely normal to be apprehensive about the future, you will be walking into the unknown. However as you say - you are pretty sure you will manage without him, as you already do now.
He knows that you are considering moving out, he is just choosing to deny it to himself and that is not your responsibility. I think when you find somewhere, you will be able to set the ball rolling.
Whatever the effect is on everyone else, you can not control it. Your boys have you and always will, they might even enjoy life that little bit more because there won't be the pressure to behave a certain way and also because mum will be happier.
You are worried that the rest of the family may end up hating you. If they do then there is no love lost. If someone you care about makes a difficult decision, then the loving thing to do is to support them the best way you know how, not make them feel bad for doing it.
The 'feel good' factor that you get when looking at all the Pros of leaving, says it all midgeymoo.
Interesting morning and last few days really. My partner appears to be 'trying' with my youngest, interacting with him etc. I find it un-nerving to see though. Then i read through an advice thing on a therapists website (US Therapist).
One question posed is:
Is there such a thing as having been hurt too much to even want to give a relationship one more chance?
http://www.barbaradeangelis.com/advice_BU_SO.asp
Anyways its along the lines of...
Her hubby sounds like my partner. Okay, i'm more frustrated, angry, annoyed that miserable i guess.
Well that last bit sounds just like the way my partner is acting now.. And how i feel about it..
There is also a question - How do you know when a relationship just isn't going to work and its time to leave?
A few things stand out here, we have grown in different directions, i want different things to him. He refuses to work on the relationship and his fatal flaw as such is his anger/control.
And the final piece of advice i read, feels like me to. The question of - How can you break up with someone without causing that person pain?
Its an interesting read.
The other thing thats happened this morning is that i have seen a property and its fabulous. Ok, so its a ten min drive to school and there's no garden with the property. but the village has a large playing field and play area, a library, a community college and upper school, 2 community centres, a pub opposite the appartment, a sandwich shop/bakers below. The station is just up the road as is a pharmacy, hairdressers etc. (the appartment is sound proofed). Its very spacious, in a quiet location and its lovely. It is however a little over budget, but the landlord is happy to accept housing benefit and i may well be able to lower the rent slightly. The rental agancy have passed on the landlords number to me so i can call him because he would like to talk to me about the benefits bit and prob meet me (i'll take my parents if i do). Okay, so i feel a little excited, but very scared too, scared because i'm not sure its right, but having read the website mentioned above, i think my decision is very nearly there. I just need to have the guts to bring things up with my partner, to talk to him calmly and to not feel drawn in by his hurt/pain, although i feel hurt and pain too right now because of the decsion i am so close to making.
Gotta go.. Bit emotional now..
Hi midgeymoo, we love Barbara DeAngelis on this site, I am unsure if Louise told you about the book that she wrote that we highly recommend - Are you the One for Me? -it makes for very interesting reading!
Your first question posed was: Is there such a thing as having been hurt too much to even want to give a relationship one more chance?
I believe in your situation, you have tried many many times to give the relationship 'one more chance'
The second question was: How do you know when a relationship just isn't going to work and its time to leave?
You have to trust your gut instinct. I get the impression that you know in your heart this just isn't working out. The easy option is to stay and hope everything just gets sorted, the hardest option is to commit to the idea and leave. You may keep battling it out with your partner, but the crunch will come, there is only so long you can keep banging your head against a brick wall!
The third question: How can you break up with someone without causing that person pain?
Simple answer - you can't. If only it was that easy to say to someone 'This isn't working' and they reply 'Oh, ok, I understand, never mind, lets go our separate ways, but stay friends' Ahh how lovely that would be!! 
You have found this place, it sounds fabulous. I am wondering why you have not already contacted the landlord?
You say that you need to have the guts to bring things up with your partner, to talk to him calmly and to not feel drawn into his hurt/pain. It sounds like you are wanting his permission to do this.
How would you feel if you contacted the landlord and you came to an arrangement with him, then went home and told your partner that you had found somewhere and were moving out on Friday xxth July and that you were looking forward to a new chapter in your life where you can find yourself and hopefully he will support you through it? Therefore you are not ending the relationship, it is just shifting.
It is a very scary time midgeymoo so be kind to yourself.
Yes the easy option is to stay, but doesn't feel right anymore, the hardest option is to leave and is the scariest option. I have never been to one to say 'enough' and leave, guess i am a different and stronger person now, thats scary but liberating.
I have contacted the landlord, waiting for him to return my call but i will call again tomorrow. Have also spoken to my boys, told them i saw a place on the internet and told them what it was like. My eldest said 'wow!, are we moving in. A****** will get all grumpy if we move though', my youngest was pretty much the same until i mentioned theres no garden but there is a play park and field down the road. He said 'well i don't want to move if theres no garden, i won't have anywhere to kick a ball around and build dens' (he goes to the play park and field down the road every time my parents are over with my Dad??). Youngests response did bother me, so am also going to book a viewing at a bungalow on the outskirts of town, same price, same number of rooms, but with a garden. Worth a look i thought. Still love the place i saw today though and the village as i said has lots on the doorstep so to speak.
I think if i speak to the landlord and made an arrangement with him and went home as you say and told my partner i'd found somewhere etc... I think i would feel aprehensive. I think i am waiting for his permission, and the thing is he has said it may be best that i move, its just when he follows it up with 'i'll prob sell the house', and when he starts 'trying', that i hang on, but hang on for what i don't know because i still feel the same?
I'm feeling scared but strong. I understand that it's me who meets my own needs and I'm only now starting to do that what with uni and going on night's out etc. I've realised that I'm starting to find myself again and become aware of things. I've also realised that I've grown apart from my partner, we are growing in different directions. I've learnt a lot about myself over the last few years and am more or less comfortable with myself and know how i wish to meet mine and my boys needs. This nagging feeling with my partner is not about what I want him to do or not do, yes there are issues around parenting and communication. Selfish as it may seem its my independence I want, to do my own thing. My partner has a plan, i have aspirations, we don't seem to meet in the middle. Living without my partner I feel would be able to live the life I want, the way i want. I can see him if i want or i don't have to. we may move in together again one day, we may not. I do still want to see him, but i don't want to live his life, right now it feels wrong and i feel i've got alot more I want to do for me and for my boys. Does any of that make any sense?
That makes total sense, midgeymoo. You don't sound selfish, you sound as though you are considering what you need & want for yourself & your boys. Seems to me that you're all but ready to 'fly'...
The potential new place sounds fabulous;though your youngest is a bit reticent, that could be just to do with change (similar to the way you've been feeling of late). Could you take the boys with you to look at the property so he could see what it has to offer?
Reading your last post, it seems as though you are offering both yourself & your partner space to explore 'what happens next'. And it also sounds to me as though you will manage if living apart isn't what he wants from a relationship.
As Anna said, be kind to yourself. But focus on the 'liberation' rather than the 'scariness'. You are more than capable of doing the right thing for you x x
Mmm... I could take my boys to view the place. At least when mentioning it they aren't saying 'no i don't want to move' which is a plus point.
I'm meeting the landlord of the place i viewed on Wednesday tomorrow and i'm also viewing another property tomorrow - a bungalow 2/3 bed with a garden this time. My Dad has offered to come to both tomorrow and offer his support.
I'm a little worried that both these properties are not near the school, well not walking distance anyway, we'll need to drive. It will affect my budget as such and with the rent on both being higher than i want, travel will be an additional cost. I'm sure i'll work it out and manage though.
Felt a little uneasy later on last night, kept questioning myself as to whether i'm the controlling one, i'm wanting too much?? Mixed feelings i guess. Don't feel too bad this morning. The thought of moving out is scary, yes, but the thought of living apart again is quite a liberating one and i've found myself chatting happily to my partner the last couple of days. Strange??
I'm sure things will work out the way they are meant to, just like the rest of my life has, theres always knocks and bumps along the way
I'm glad your Dad is coming along for support. He seems to be supporting your decisions...
Hi midgeymoo, I know that you want to please your boys, but if you don't have a garden straight away, your boys will get used to it. They will be able to explore the local area instead! Although I understand your car fuel concerns.
I am glad your dad is going with you, that is such a brilliant support.
Sometimes the thought of something is more scary than the reality. When you actually find the words to tell your partner you are moving out, you may be really surprised how easily things will move. Your partner knows you are planning it, although he is not talking about it, he may well be steeling himself for you to say it any day now.
You are not abandoning your partner or his family, you are just relocating.
No. You're right. I'm not abandoning my partner or his family. I am giving myself space, space to be me, space to enjoy my children and space to take a step back with my partner and see where the relationship goes. Being in the heat of it all is confusing and frustrating. Sometimes i feel like i'm running away, but then i tell myself, I need this, for ME and its not running away, its taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture to see what lies where and to move forward. This may not be the way to do things for some people, but for me it is.
I viewed the bungalow with my Dad today, its spacious and is in the process of being redecorated and cleaned up as the previous tenant didn't look after it. The garden is nice and it has a driveway too. So i have that on my list along with the appartment i saw on Wednesday, and tomorrow i'm viewing a 2 bed house (with one en suite), kitchen/diner, lounge, family bathroom, garden and allocated parking, in the area i have been seeking, plus its within my budget. Keeping my fingers crossed as i'm the first and only one booked to view it. It only went up for rent this afternoon.
Looking at the properties has made me feel more confident in my choice and i feel a little less scared about telling my partner. I feel a bit nasty though as i have withdrawn myself physically from him, i can't bring myself to cuddle and kiss him as i said i would. Hes backed off too. The thing is, i feel less inclined to because i don't want him to be thinking everything is ok. I know that doesn't sound very nice, but its just how i feel.
i know in myself that what i am doing is right. I've ignored my instincts at my own peril in the past and i'm listening to them now and it feels right.
Ok. Wobbly morning...
Just myself and my partner at home this weekend. Very relaxed atmosphere. Just want to go hug him, but doesn't seem right.
How crazy is this. I like being just him and me, but not all the time. I like my space, i really do. I like doing my own thing and i like his company too, just not all the time. Thats feels so selfish though. Its written in my mind that relationships are where two people live together and put up with all the crap, but it doesn't feel right for me and i feel like i'm in the wrong for feeling this way. How can you want to be with someone, but not all the time. How can you be with someone but not want all the crap that comes with it. Thats wrong isn't it? I know relationships are not plain sailing, i know they require nuturing and working on, but i've tried to do that and look where its got me. I just want to be able to love him, be with him, but be able to raise my children and lead my life too as oppose to ending up really detesting my partner. I guess i'm just trying to give the realtionship a chance to work or heal if you like, but by going a different way about it. Is that wrong?
Sorry, things rolling around in my head again today, always does on my weekends alone with my partner and i end up questioning everything again.
Hi midgeymoo.
What you talk about above is not in the least bit crazy. You have given living with your partner a good 'go' & you feel that it might work better if you & your kids lived somewhere else. That seems fair enough to me - and as you said in your post above that "its not running away, its taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture to see what lies where and to move forward. This may not be the way to do things for some people, but for me it is."
It takes a brave person to say 'I like this, but I also need this'. There are no rules which are set in stone for relationships; finding your own way of making something work is admirable.
You are not 'wrong' (though you do like to employ a lot of negative self talk!). Go ahead with your plans to view the other property you've mentioned. If & when the time comes to tell your partner that you are moving out, if you do it in the eloquent way you have often described your thought processes on the board I am sure he will hear what you're saying as a desire to give the relationship you have together every chance of working out.
Trust yourself, midgeymoo x
Yes. Its true, I do employ alot of negative self talk, and i'm pretty hard on myself. I used to be so much worse though I am always questioning what i do (or don't do), its like having the good guy on one shoulder and the bad guy on the other sometimes . I try to think of things from every angle, which is not always helpful.
Another blip this morning, a bit of uncertainty, prob more so because it is just my partner and me, and no other crap, so it feels 'better' and therefore the uncertainty sets in. But i know when my boys come back from their dads, work comes into play, and my partners kids are here etc etc.. i can't give my partner the attention he craves and it frustrates him and blinking well annoys the heck out of me. This on top of his controlling nature which gets my back up and everything else i've mentioned, it gets back to the point of 'enough!'.
so i'm back to thinking straight this afternoon 'take a step back and look at the bigger picture to see what lies where and to move forward'
I viewed the property and its perfect (well for my boys and i anyway). Nice quiet location, on route to school, play areas nearby, nice house clean and tidy, cycle routes all round, and within budget monthly rent. So, i'm going to be putting in an application on Monday and have emailed the letting agent to let them know.
Now its just breaking it to my partner...
Oh midgeymoo, I'm really pleased! The house sounds perfect for your needs - really hope you get it.
Let us know if you need support/input about talking to your partner, and be sure to tell us when you get confirmation that you have your new home (Think positive!)
Mary
My weekend has been nice. But i'm sure my partner is under the impression that everything is ok again. He was back to snuggling up close and saying we could have an early night and get up close and personal. Hes been ok with my boys and making a big effort to play with my youngest, in front of my parents and my ex and i at my eldests footy tournament today. But hes also been annoying with silly little things, messing with things in my car, rearranging them whilst i'm driving, rushing me out of my parents house to pick my boys up from their dads so that he could get home to watch the sporting highlights of the day whilst emptied the car and packed everything away, bathed and got my two to bed and tidied up. Hes making this huge effort, but for who? Anyway, ranting away again, sorry..
I was thinking today what i would say to my partner, how i would tell him what i would like to do.
I want to tell him that i love him and what to stay with him. I want to tell him that i need space right now to find myself, to become comfortable with being a parent the way i want to be - i want to feel confident in my parenting before i allow my partner to play a role in it. Does that make sense? I want to tell him that in order to move forward and hold on to our relationship, that i feel the need to take a step back. I don't wish to be here, living together and struggling to find a way to move forward because its difficult when the view is clouded by everything going on around us. I want to tell him that i want this relationship to survive and to do this i feel i need to create some space.
I have also been thinking about the childrens reactions, how does one tell them what i'm doing and why?
Well freaked out about making that call to the letting agency tomorrow, not gonna bottle out though. I keep fighting with feelings at the moment. Its funny really, coz even when in doubt i am still looking at properties and thinking of what i need to be doing to get one. Gotta get some sleep now, head is bursting with to many thoughts again this evening and i'm getting all muddled.
Thanks for listening x
Oh my god. This is it. The lettings agent came back to me this morning. I have to go in to collect the forms to apply along with a cheque for £200 for the referancing to be done. Then i need to drop the forms back this evening or early tomorrow morning. The checks should be complete by Friday and then i'll know one way or another if i'm moving... Feel totally out of sorts now, very emotional. Not said anything to my partner, am feeling very scared now.. 
Off to town shortly to collect forms.. What am i doing?? I guess i must be right or i'd have stopped the whole process at viewing like i have in the past many times before.
Yes my partner is doing things that i wanted to see all along, but it hurts to see him doing it. Is it all an act? Thing is if i'm not here and he makes the effort then thats great, but if he just gives up well, guess thats his choice. I can't and don't want to be the one to work it all out, keep things afloat etc.. I want him to take some responsibility. Its his call. My friends only see the A thay know on the outside. Its great that their relationships work with them living together. Its just not for me though. What is a relationship these days, and how is it meant to be? As far as i can see it can be anything as long as it works for both partners involved, we're all different i guess.
Hello midgymoo
You are doing lots of reflecting about what you want and trying to work things out...it is horrid when there are so many thoughts going round in your head.
Time to grasp the proverbial nettle and get the ball rolling with the move. You KNOW it is what you want, just hold your nerve and go with it...
I've done it...
My Dad has offered to come over to look after my boys and bring the cash needed for referencing so that i can pop down and sort the forms out etc..
I'm in tears on and off, and tried not to cry over the phone to my dad, i feel like i'm such a pain in the rear end, first my divorce and all that came with it and now this. He told me not to cry and that he understands and they are always here for me. Cue more tears...
I do know its right, really i do. If i give in like all the other times, then i'm back on the merry-go-round and will arrive with the same thoughts and feelings in a few months time questioning whether to stay or go again. Moving is always on my mind and has been from 1 year after we moved in together. I remember speaking to my counsellors over the last 4 years and visiting the same scenario - moving out. As my dad said, hes not sure its really what i wanted initially, though my partner did and its hard when you reflect on it.
I feel terrible, a horrid person because i have not told my partner anything of what i've been doing over the last week, viewings etc and now this. I'm sure he thinks everything is on the mend (again).
I feel for my boys, i want them to be happy too. This morning when i posed the concept of possibly moving to my boys, my youngest asked if we would still come for sleepovers here and he was cross with me when i said no. My oldest seem unphased by it all, just wanting to know if he'll be at the same school and able to see my partner and his children still.
I want my boys to be happy, but i want to be happy too.
It's great when people actually LISTEN
The book you are reading sounds fascinating as well.