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Well done on staying calm!!!
Yes you could well be going through the depression "stage", the good news is that this is the low point and after this, the only way is up! (well there is backsliding and up and down but in general, the next "stage" is more positive....
thanks again Louise - i tried to talk to her again after school but she is still not ready so i left things - i am going to try some new techniques to stop things escalating - will let you know if they work. she is seeing her dad briefly today and then again on saturday but do you know i am not bothered what she tells him - he doesn't live it everyday and he was useless when he was here and not interested in what they were doing so based on that i am not going to beat myself up that he is the better parent - easy to be the one who takes them out and treats them and then hands them back - sends them the odd text etc - that doesn't make a good dad
Gosh no, that doesn't make him the better parent!
What techniques are you going to use with your daughter?
morning Louise - firstly trying to stay calm!
trying not to issue too many instructions - put this away, do that, do this etc
trying to listen but not necessarily say anything in return other than yes i see or mm because i don't think she wants any comments a lot of the time
i am going to try and do some baking with her - she hates cooking main meals but loves baking but does need "encouraged" - one problem is she can't make decisions so i am going to do an either or recipe and make sure i have the ingredients for both - i guess one problem will be she may say neither! but if she does i will accept that and leave it for the next time
make myself available more to her - not sure how i am going to do this or let her know that she can talk to me anytime but will figure it out
My daughter loves making fairy cakes - and we share the cleaning out the mixture bowl bit...
You're doing well staying calm.
Hi lrh, one thing I have learnt especially on these boards, is that our children hate to see us down. It rocks their security in themselves and their world. They don't know this necessarily, but they do tend to lash out in anger.
I am prone to be a bit rubbish when I am down, I don't tend to shout, but more likely mope around and it really frustrates my daughter.
May I suggest that you do the baking with her and perhaps raise other issues while you are baking or afterwards when you are on compatible terms.
You say you are not sure when you are going to find the time to spend with her, how about just finding just 10 minutes everyday when you have a cup of tea, find her, sit down and ask her about her day. That often is all they need.
Looking forward to hearing how the baking goes. I have to be honest my daughter loves baking, but she does get stressed if anything goes wrong and that is the time I have to bite my tongue and not step in. But she is learning from her mistakes and I am very proud of the things she has produced!! My sister in law to be has even asked her make small cakes for all her wedding guests - an absolute compliment, however my daughter is not keen on that idea - too much like hard work (and in her words 'what if they all go wrong')!!
thanks Anna and sparklinglime - what i meant when i said i wasn't sure how i could make time is that our situation is a bit unusual in that both my kids are involved in a club sport that means they are back late most nights and its usually the younger one that is home with me more than the older one and its harder to "get rid of" the younger one so i can spend time with eldest - but i managed today and sent younger one off upstairs on an errand and eldest started talking about a new author she was reading - so it was 5 mins of quality time and i feel proud that i stopped what i was doing and gave her my full attention. my ex used to carry on what he was doing whenever i spoke to him and never looked at me when i was speaking so i know how annoying, rude and downright ignorant it is so i am making a vow today to always stop what i am doing and give them my full attention.
i have also requested some more counselling sessions - 4 free through my work - to talk about my relationship with eldest - so they will get back to me within 5 days with an appointment so i am pleased with myself today
Wow, lrh you have done really well, I am sure the counselling will help.
The thing about giving the young person your full attention, I remember going through that, I always used to be working and not taking my eyes off the computer and when I went on my first counselling course, we had to practise Active Listening with our family. It REALLY helped my relationship with my youngest, he was only eight at the time.
Sometimes I feel with my teens that I don't actually know what they are talking about, especially my eldest who can be very intellectual. So I just nod and smile
You are going to have to be quite inventive thinking of ways to divert your youngest so you get some time with your daughter......
still doing well - eldest started talking about a film she wants to see with her friends so i stopped what i was doing and sat listening to her - when she had finished she asked me to look up a clip on line and we watched it together
i was worried that when she saw her dad briefly yesterday things would be worse because i have been feeling like a bad parent and thought he would come along and it would make things worse for me - in actual fact it sounds as though he was behaving like a sulky teenager towards her when asked what she wanted to do with him at the weekend and she said she didn't know he huffed at her and she said he seemed annoyed. It is so confusing for them because one minute he is asking them what they want to do and then the next minute he is organising stuff for them -but i think if he wants to give them some free choice then he should say let me know if there is stuff you want to do or i will organise things - having said all that he never organised stuff when we were together it was always me who came up with a plan at weekends and holidays so nothing much has changed
Yep, LRH, and you backing off is the right thing, just let him get himself into a twizzle if that is how it turns out. Remember what the guy on the phone said about him being like a child and having allowed you to parent him in the past? This is a difficult pattern to break, of course, but now is the time to break it.
Good news about your daughter, sounds like the listening is paying dividends.
I have suddely realised that I have not mentioned my favourite book about teenagers for at least ten minutes (!) so have a look at it here (the used copies are very cheap)
thanks for the encouragement - i saw him earlier and he didn't speak to me so he is obviously upset with me (am i bovered!) he finally came up with something for them to do tomorrow and texted to tell them - wouldn't be surprised if she happens to be there accidentally on purpose.
Taking my mum out for mothers day lunch tomorrow so will try and spend the day thinking of her rather than what the idiot is doing with the kids
That will be nice.
Aww shame lrh, if he's upset with you 
do you know for the first time, when I saw him today, I felt as though I had no feelings for him whatsoever and certainly no attraction to him - am I moving into the acceptance phase
..there are certainly glimmers, LRH
off out with my mum shortly - perhaps i shouldn't mention, after the thread about phobias, i have enquired about two cats from the cat protection league - oh no i am having a panic attack now - maybe its not the right time
I am the last person to ask about cats!! although maybe you need to think whether you want something else to be responsible for...ie would this be something positive for you or an extra drain|?
I know Louise - did you see my post on the phobias thread
I absolutely loved my cat - I am not sure how I feel - have emailed CPL and no doubt they will be in touch - promise not to mention the "c" word on all my threads
I will be giving the phobias thread a wide berth
I've looked at rescuing a c*t, but then know I'm not ready yet, how ever much I miss her.
We would rescue a c*t though rather than a k****n
all the c*ts are at least a year old - so would never get a k*tten but the reason i thought about fostering was that way i would know c*t was moving on and i would know how i felt having another one in the house - its so hard as the house doesn't feel right without her but would it feel right with a new c*t
hope you are appreciating our attempts to help you Louise
We are so considerate... 
Possibly a shame that there aren't more letters in c*t though...
I am glad there aren't more letters......brings a whole new meaning to the "c" word!!
Now let's not lower the tone...
Hope you are Ok this morning
lol!
thanks Louise - all ok this morning
just the three of them yesterday - girls came back happy and relaxed
That's good, much better for everyone all round
in the book putting children first it says not to introduce a partner until separated about 2 years
i enjoyed quoting that to him today but i doubt he will listen
Hi lrh, having a cat is so much responsibility, so fostering can be a good idea, however a friend of mine fosters and their needs can be very varied and often take up a lot of her time. Time and energy that detracts her from her children.
Just a thought!
Brilliant news about the Active Listening, it is SO important. My 17yr old often talks a lot of waffle, I nod and make murmuring noises often!! It is only when I stop what I am doing that we end up having a very interesting conversation and she trusts me to tell me more!
Its not hard to do, we just have to make the effort at least once a day! Keep it up, it does sound like you may be turning another corner
Did you have a lovely mothers day?
Hi Anna - yes I had a good Mothers Day - youngest baked a cake
Spoke to CPL and we are too far away from them to foster - we are getting a home visit with regards to two 9 month old cats but we don't have to make a decision until we are ready - we will go and see them of course and take it from there although I guess when we see them that will be that.
The idiot is getting a bit uppity about something and I think he is going to drastically reduce the money he is paying us - so until I have checked what is going into the bank account this month I won't commit to anything although I guess he could change it next month
Ooh lucky you! My daughter made a cheesecake, yum! Think I will put the recipe in our food glorious food section!
When my daughter was smaller I bought two kittens. I thought they would keep each other company when I am at work, however they never got on, I have since read up and apparently you should never home sisters together 
I didn't know that!
Have you looked on the Child Maintenance calculator to see how much you are entitled to if you were to go down the CSA route?
oh no Anna - don't tell me that about cats!
we had sisters before and they were great - you have me worried i am off to google that now
Do have a look at the maintenance calculator that Anna mentioned.....
I guess all cats are different, I might have just been looking up info about one's that don't get along!
In another post of yours you are questioning whether getting cats is the right thing to do, my motto is always "Don't know means No".
Do a pros and cons list and see what comes out on top.
What did the maintenance calculator say?
he pays more than the calculator but is the figure quoted supposed to include paying something towards the mortgage?
i am confused at to whether the figure quoted is supposed to cover housing - i phoned them a while back and I am sure they told me that the figure quoted legally was to cover housing as well - in which case if that is all he would pay we would really be in trouble!
Having said that my mum says I shouldn't rock the boat with him but I am not getting walked all over in case he decides to pay me less - if he went down that route the kids would suffer and he would have to live with that
If you want some specialist advice about child support, don't forget we have our own expert, who is very experienced with these questions, you can email her here for help
thanks - I have emailed
In theory, no more than the CSA calculator needs to be paid. Perhaps he'll feel that he wants to help though.
Thanks sparklinglime - I was told by Citizens Advice at the beginning that he was probably over paying because he felt guilty but that he would probably sooner or later reduce the payments.
He has already asked me if I can take on the mortgage but there is no way as I am on a temporary contract and I only work 17 hours - if me contract doesn't get renewed after summer then I will be out of work. I am almost sure he wants to get a mortgage of his own so my worry is that he will reduce the payments to the minimum and then I will be forced to sell the house because we won't be able to afford to live here - I think he is liable for half the mortgage but I wouldn't be able to cover the other half.
He has reduced the money already albeit by a small amount - its like a wait and see game every month.
am having a bit of a panic attack - home visit re cats went great but i suddenly thought if the idiot makes me sell house who knows where we would end up and we may not be able to take cats with us - we are supposed to go and see the cats (and get them!) on Friday - eek that's tomorrow - help
Gosh we hadn't thought of that before. If you go ahead then you will have to realise that you "could" have to rehome them if you move. Big decision to take,LRH
Hi lrh, I don't really have advice over the c*ts (for Louise's benefit) Probably have said similar to Louise. You might have to re-home them if you have to move. Wouldn't be fair on them or you and the family really. Can you not have longer to think about it?
I am sure I could but it won't change the future - the idiot is still going to end up telling me when he is good and ready that he wants to sell i guess and i have realised i can't put my life on hold waiting to see if he is going to pull the rug from under my feet
Are you fostering the little sweet-peas? Or are they permanant?
My dog's ill, so here I am still letting her out in the garden. I'm sure a child has given her chocolate. She's never been so ill. No way could I run down stairs with her mind...
no not fostering as we live too far away from the branch of cpl - so its for keeps but i have decided that i can't live thinking that we may have to give them up and move - surely better for them to have a great home for a while and if they have to be rehomed then we will have to deal with it - hopefully that won't happen - if i knew for sure we were having to move then i wouldn't dream of taking them on - as much for them as the kids sake. ooh i am really nervous now!
just want to say how energising it is to wake up everyday (well last few days anyway!) and not to feel as though I care about the idiot anymore - I don't hate him - I just don't feel anything anymore - I am sure when I see the two of them together I may have the odd twinge but do you know I think I may even feel sorry for them - two sad and needy people together.
Starting to enjoy life again
Off to a spa day on Sunday with some girlfriends - all day
That does sound lovely
its great sparkling and we get a nice 3 course lunch afterwards just in case we are hungry after all the exercise
Oooh I hope you had a fabulous time littleredhen!
Had a great time at the Spa day last Sunday and then everything went down hill. Had a bad couple of days arguing with eldest and then youngest decided it was her turn to be rude too!
Having said that, the counselling on Friday was great, he told me to get some self compassion - I love it!
He said I sounded like a thoughtful person who was trying to do the best for my kids and I was perhaps too self critical and a perfectionist (ooh - had me down to a t)
I cried alot and felt so much better when I came out - my youngest is at a sleepover and eldest and I had a nice evening together.
I got upset the other night cos the idiot had messed up contact this weekend - I didn't have anything planned so it wasn't a problem but he was so aggressive on the phone - he obviously doesn't like admitting he has made a mistake and he really doesn't like me sorting it outbut I told him the solution he was offering would not be good for the girls and I would have to pick up the pieces when he brought them back and I wasn't prepared to do that.
Anyway - new day today - going into town with my girls for shopping and lunch when youngest gets back from sleepover - on holiday now for 2 weeks (although sleet is due in the next day or so!!) Fluffy things are doing great and I feel like I am back on track
Have a good weekend everyone
thanks Louise I will do that - i have read back through this thread several times and it does help but i haven't made any notes to help - i wondered if i am now going through the depression stage of this grief process - still feeling really low today - tried to talk to my daughter but she isn't ready to listen - she swore at me this morning but i did manage to remain calm. i will have to leave things with her for now she just isn't ready to talk